Celtics Free Agency & Summer League

[rochrist]

That's because he is ****.

What does that make Simmons then? 2-9 and blocked by a guy 3 inches shorter than him.

 

[IcyPatriot]

James Young was much better tonight ...
Rozier had another very good game.
Bentil looks real good everytime in there but he's not in there to much.
They're giving Yabusele the majority of the minutes but it is at center.
He's okay but Unless I see him shooting I don't see him on the Celtics roster this year.
He looks like he has a nice shot ... but they have a short team entered so it is what it is.

 

[rochrist]

Yabasule ended with a 13 pt, 8 rb, 2 block night. Not too shabby.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Yabasule ended with a 13 pt, 8 rb, 2 block night. Not too shabby.

Not to shabby at all but it doesn't make much sense right now how he fits in with the big club.
He's too short to play center in the NBA so it would seem he's a power forward who can shoot.
But he's not been given a chance to show that so we'll have to wait.
I guess for now he's getting acquainted with USA basketball ... I'm selfishly wishing to see him shoot more - looks like he has a great shot.

 

[rochrist]

Rozier is looking more and more like the real deal. 23 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists, hit the game winning loooong 3 pointer tonight with 1.8 seconds left.

 

[realtime]

Rozier is looking more and more like the real deal. 23 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists, hit the game winning loooong 3 pointer tonight with 1.8 seconds left.

That was encouraging to see. Very exciting game, although it was a bit discouraging to see that San Antonio (despite always drafting later in the first round than the C's) had far and away the two most talented players on the floor.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, once again it didn't quite work out for Celts in terms of free agency - though I do have to give Ainge credit in that he improved the team and put them in a position to be a contender for Durant (especially by landing Horford) - but that's the thing about a very watered down limited draft and the wild card of developing attracting the key players one needs to truly contend

That's not to say Ainge is pefect (Fab Melo) but such that Durant made a different decision (albeit one to jump back into free agency in a year or two - which is wise of Durant) we'd all be saying he's a genius (which again, he is not - but credit where due for now)

 

[willard]

Pretty excited we might be able to pry Cousins loose. I would offer Rozier, Avery Bradley,Kelly Olynyk or Amir Johnson, 2018 Brooklyn pick plus Clippers 1st for him. Add Sullinger in if needed in a sign and trade. Would add another 1st except next years Brooklyn or replace rozier with Smart if that pushed the deal through.

I would offer Avery Bradley, Young plus a non Brooklyn 1st to the Sixers for Okafur, but that is a fallback.

You can see I think AB should be traded now. He has 2 years left on his contract and is at his height of desirability having been named 1st team defense and the improvement in his shot. I really think we have the defenders to replace him. His shot will be missed, but he is undersized and likely prone to more physical breakdown.

Thinking there is a good chance to pry one of these two free. What they both have is good passing for a big which is important in the Boston Offence. Plus size obviously. I know the league has gone small, but with the defensive players we have 1-4, we could have a center that really dominates offensively.

 

[realtime]

Pretty excited we might be able to pry Cousins loose. I would offer Rozier, Avery Bradley,Kelly Olynyk or Amir Johnson, 2018 Brooklyn pick plus Clippers 1st for him. Add Sullinger in if needed in a sign and trade. Would add another 1st except next years Brooklyn or replace rozier with Smart if that pushed the deal through.

I would offer Avery Bradley, Young plus a non Brooklyn 1st to the Sixers for Okafur, but that is a fallback.

You can see I think AB should be traded now. He has 2 years left on his contract and is at his height of desirability having been named 1st team defense and the improvement in his shot. I really think we have the defenders to replace him. His shot will be missed, but he is undersized and likely prone to more physical breakdown.

Thinking there is a good chance to pry one of these two free. What they both have is good passing for a big which is important in the Boston Offence. Plus size obviously. I know the league has gone small, but with the defensive players we have 1-4, we could have a center that really dominates offensively.

I don't understand the love for Okafor. He is a disaster from an analytics perspective, is as slow and unathletic as NBA frontcourt players get and has off court/maturity issues. I would not trade Bradley for him straight up.

 

[willard]

Well he is young and there are 3 +1 more years of control at rookie scale. He is a scorer, rebounder and above average passer for a big man. He has shown some shot blocking ability. A strong center is an area of need identified by Danny Ainge and he has the potential to be an above average one and is available. I think the Celtics would be a good fit for his development in terms of what Management, Stevens and the locker room could give him.

Just think AB is at his height and although he will be missed on the team we have Smart, Rozier, Brown, Hunter, and Young who can all play his role to some degree. Certainly Bradley's shooting would be missed (didn't think I would say that a couple years ago), but I think some combination of the 5 listed could step up. I think our future championship effort is still 3 years away if we don't get Cousins (not as much of a fan of Westbrook right now, maybe at the trade deadline). We need to see who we have among the 5 that can help us get to the top even if it means slipping at the position some. The replacement of Sullinger with Okafor is an upgrade in my eyes at the position and given our depth more than offsets Bradley's loss with a 3 to 5 window in view.

Think Okafor is a worthwhile gamble for the Celtics although I would much prefer Cousins so long as the staff thinks he is not an unworkable head case. Danny has enough chips to cover different bets and Okafor should be had for not too much. If Ainge gets the sense Cousins is not available without half our starting team and both Brooklyn picks (seems they could ask that) we should go after Okafor. I would even offer the 2nd Brooklyn pick in that scenario for Okafor because the potential upside is higher than Sullinger or Olynyk. Would prefer to pull Bradley back in that case and offer Rozier or Hunter plus Young to go with the pick. Seems there must be a deal in there someplace that improves the Celtics. Horford, Amir and Olynyk are nice complimentary players to fit with Okafor up front.

 

[realtime]

Well he is young and there are 3 +1 more years of control at rookie scale. He is a scorer, rebounder and above average passer for a big man. He has shown some shot blocking ability. A strong center is an area of need identified by Danny Ainge and he has the potential to be an above average one and is available. I think the Celtics would be a good fit for his development in terms of what Management, Stevens and the locker room could give him.

Just think AB is at his height and although he will be missed on the team we have Smart, Rozier, Brown, Hunter, and Young who can all play his role to some degree. Certainly Bradley's shooting would be missed (didn't think I would say that a couple years ago), but I think some combination of the 5 listed could step up. I think our future championship effort is still 3 years away if we don't get Cousins (not as much of a fan of Westbrook right now, maybe at the trade deadline). We need to see who we have among the 5 that can help us get to the top even if it means slipping at the position some. The replacement of Sullinger with Okafor is an upgrade in my eyes at the position and given our depth more than offsets Bradley's loss with a 3 to 5 window in view.

Think Okafor is a worthwhile gamble for the Celtics although I would much prefer Cousins so long as the staff thinks he is not an unworkable head case. Danny has enough chips to cover different bets and Okafor should be had for not too much. If Ainge gets the sense Cousins is not available without half our starting team and both Brooklyn picks (seems they could ask that) we should go after Okafor. I would even offer the 2nd Brooklyn pick in that scenario for Okafor because the potential upside is higher than Sullinger or Olynyk. Would prefer to pull Bradley back in that case and offer Rozier or Hunter plus Young to go with the pick. Seems there must be a deal in there someplace that improves the Celtics. Horford, Amir and Olynyk are nice complimentary players to fit with Okafor up front.

I'm afraid that what you see is what you get with Okafor. I just don't see the upside, so the facts that he is young and under control for a long time are not selling points.

538's recent analysis identifies Michael Beasley as Okafor's most likely career comp. It would be insane to trade Brooklyn's potential top-5 pick in 2019 (as you are suggesting) for a player of that quality.

 

[realtime]

Yabasule ended with a 13 pt, 8 rb, 2 block night. Not too shabby.

Yab (along with Nader and, to a lesser extent, Rozier) was the only C who looked decent tonight in a weak loss to the Bulls. He has an intriguing package of skills. It will be interesting to see if he stays in the US this season.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm afraid that what you see is what you get with Okafor. I just don't see the upside, so the facts that he is young and under control for a long time are not selling points.

538's recent analysis identifies Michael Beasley as Okafor's most likely career comp. It would be insane to trade Brooklyn's potential top-5 pick in 2019 (as you are suggesting) for a player of that quality.

Well, I don't think he's maxed out in his career just yet and while he's not as dominant as Cousins , but Okafor IS still a decent presence underneath the basket, decent passer and as you point out, he's young and signed for a few more years.

Depending on what they have to give up for him (and I'm thinking these days I'd prefer to keep Rozier rather than Smart if I have to choose assuming that the Sixers want a guard) they get better for now, haven't lost too much but haven't locked themselves in with another Max player - thus can add more next season in free agency, yet are still more improved

Cousins' attitude scares me off but he'd be a stronger presence than Okafor to be sure - they'd just have to give up much more for him too - but I'm pretty much done with the "save draft picks for the future" idea - those are chits you cash in for proven players... I'm intrigued by Westbrook as well (which would result in some additional shake ups at guard too but his scoring and assists are significant) but I think we've seen in this league you do need a strong presence underneath the basket

If they can find someone who can play Stevens uptempo team-oriented game like Golden State does they will give the Cavs major trouble and I could see them being the Eastern Champs based on how well they've played together in the past without these potential new talents joining the team

 

[realtime]

Well, I don't think he's maxed out in his career just yet and while he's not as dominant as Cousins , but Okafor IS still a decent presence underneath the basket, decent passer and as you point out, he's young and signed for a few more years.

Depending on what they have to give up for him (and I'm thinking these days I'd prefer to keep Rozier rather than Smart if I have to choose assuming that the Sixers want a guard) they get better for now, haven't lost too much but haven't locked themselves in with another Max player - thus can add more next season in free agency, yet are still more improved

Cousins' attitude scares me off but he'd be a stronger presence than Okafor to be sure - they'd just have to give up much more for him too - but I'm pretty much done with the "save draft picks for the future" idea - those are chits you cash in for proven players... I'm intrigued by Westbrook as well (which would result in some additional shake ups at guard too but his scoring and assists are significant) but I think we've seen in this league you do need a strong presence underneath the basket

If they can find someone who can play Stevens uptempo team-oriented game like Golden State does they will give the Cavs major trouble and I could see them being the Eastern Champs based on how well they've played together in the past without these potential new talents joining the team

Cousins is such a big talent that his attitude issues are well worth the risk. I'd be happy to give up a substantial package for him, with Bradley and a Brooklyn 1st as the starting point.

Keep in mind that Okafor has his own personal issues -- if the NBA had the same personal conduct policy as the NFL, Philly would be lucky to get a conditional second in a trade for him. On basketball talent alone, I might be persuaded to give up Rozier (not Smart) and a top-20 protected first for Okafor as long as he is coming in to replace Sullinger.

 

[willard]

I would give up a lot for Cousins. Thing is we have a lot to offer. If he is available, we are in a great position to grab him

Cousins could be available at the trade deadline and if we have Okafor to offer, you know Vlade likes his centers so things could play that way. I think we are in a better bargaining position with the Kings if we have Okafor. Another reason to get him if Cousins is not so easily prized away now.

Cousins is definitely prize number 1, but Okafor is not a bad consolidation prize for the Celtics in terms of constructing their roster to win the East in the next few years.

 

[realtime]

I would give up a lot for Cousins. Thing is we have a lot to offer. If he is available, we are in a great position to grab him

Cousins could be available at the trade deadline and if we have Okafor to offer, you know Vlade likes his centers so things could play that way. I think we are in a better bargaining position with the Kings if we have Okafor. Another reason to get him if Cousins is not so easily prized away now.

Cousins is definitely prize number 1, but Okafor is not a bad consolidation prize for the Celtics in terms of constructing their roster to win the East in the next few years.

Okafor is a consolation prize like a 2-month supply of rice-a-roni was a consolation prize for losing 70's game show contestants. If you think you can flip him to Sacramento, then you do a three-team trade right away (or near the trade deadline). You don't trade for him and hold onto him in the hope that he can be part of an attractive trade package some time in the future.

I might try something like Bradley, Amir Johnson, Brooklyn's 2019 #1 and the rights to Ante Zizic for Cousins and see if Sacramento will bite. The ESPN trade machine says that that trade would work. I think that deal would still be a bit lopsided in Boston's favor, but I think an offer like that is at least getting into the ballpark.

 

[willard]

I am sure Danny would do that trade in a heartbeat. Yeah I think a three way trade for the celtics is very likely. They just have a lot of assets to facilitate such a trade. If Cousins is available now I think you get him so long it is not both Brooklyn picks plus a couple of our remaining rotation players. Even then I think Cousins is a top 10 player and his skill set project for a long time. Where his head is at is above my pay grade.
Thing is if he is not available getting Okafor now makes sense as it balances the roster and spends some chips on a big who has some real skills. If he does not pan out above a backup center that is ok.

I do think if Cousins is not available now at a price we could stomach (guessing the Kings would take both Brooklyn picks, the Memphis pick, Crowder, Olynyk and Rozier-obviously Boston does not do that one) he could be more available at the trade deadline. Having Okafor gives us stronger trading chips especially one I think we can get relatively cheap. I do think Vlade will be skeptical of dealing with Danny and not wanting to lose. On the plus side he would be trading Cousins out of the conference.

What about Bradley plus Rozier for Okafor. Would balance both teams better and we loose no picks. Rozier is a classmate of Okafor and is on the same contract length. I think his play in the playoffs plus what he has shown in summer league bolsters his stock. Bradley is a very good character veteran on 2 more years of a now reasonable contract. Smart, Brown, Hunter and Jackson step up and we still have lots of flexibility with assets to do more roster shaping.

 

[realtime]

C's just renounced Sullinger, so if there are any Okafor fans in their front office (I am sure Zarren the analytics guy despises him, but he does not have a controlling vote in personnel matters), we now have room for a slow, unathletic, frontcourt player who can't play defense.

Any trade for Okafor that involves Smart or Bradley is way too rich for me. If for some reason we feel compelled to bring this guy aboard, then, as I said, I might be ok with Rozier plus a top-20 protected first.

 

[rochrist]

I don't understand the love for Okafor. He is a disaster from an analytics perspective, is as slow and unathletic as NBA frontcourt players get and has off court/maturity issues. I would not trade Bradley for him straight up.

Yep, don't want. He's the anti-Stevens player. I also don't get why it's important to trade a guy because he "has 2 years left on his contract and is at his height of desirability having been named 1st team defense and the improvement in his shot."

I am sure Danny would do that trade in a heartbeat. Yeah I think a three way trade for the celtics is very likely. They just have a lot of assets to facilitate such a trade. If Cousins is available now I think you get him so long it is not both Brooklyn picks plus a couple of our remaining rotation players. Even then I think Cousins is a top 10 player and his skill set project for a long time. Where his head is at is above my pay grade.
Thing is if he is not available getting Okafor now makes sense as it balances the roster and spends some chips on a big who has some real skills. If he does not pan out above a backup center that is ok.

I do think if Cousins is not available now at a price we could stomach (guessing the Kings would take both Brooklyn picks, the Memphis pick, Crowder, Olynyk and Rozier-obviously Boston does not do that one) he could be more available at the trade deadline. Having Okafor gives us stronger trading chips especially one I think we can get relatively cheap. I do think Vlade will be skeptical of dealing with Danny and not wanting to lose. On the plus side he would be trading Cousins out of the conference.

What about Bradley plus Rozier for Okafor. Would balance both teams better and we loose no picks. Rozier is a classmate of Okafor and is on the same contract length. I think his play in the playoffs plus what he has shown in summer league bolsters his stock. Bradley is a very good character veteran on 2 more years of a now reasonable contract. Smart, Brown, Hunter and Jackson step up and we still have lots of flexibility with assets to do more roster shaping.

Why does Rozier being a teamate of Okafor in school play into this given that you're trading him FOR Okafor.
I reiterate, do not want Okafor. Slow, defensive sieve who doesn't fit into the way Stevens wants to play.

 

[willard]

I think Okafor's floor is as a backup front court guy who can provide offense and where the other team down with his size. I think he will remain a good trade chip if he does not work out. To be honest I don't know much about him from College or High School. Being in the Philly situation would not be easy for any 19 year old and I am not ruffled by some of his behavior IF the Celtics staff is not. I don't know the man. I do think he has excellent moves to the basket, good feet and hands, above average passing for a man his size at his age and at least average rim protection. I think he fits in particularly well with Horford and the Celtics need for size and go to scoring. His contract is very good to absorb. Given his draft profile (not the perceptions from his 1 year on the sixers) would have had him rated ahead of both Smart and Brown in their draft classes. Where he would have been picked those years is speculation. The celtics culture and Stevens are exactly what he needs to have the best chance of being a star and he has a genuine chance of being a star.

I love Bradley and do not want to lose him, but there is a cost and I think he has the best value to give. His 1st defensive team is important for the Sixers to sell to the fan base because like all pro sports it is about the selling of the brand. I don't think he is a 1st defensive team. That award was more due to his clamp on Curry and his past work. Although his shooting has improved, he is not good at creating his own shot. I think he is at his peak and he is an injury risk and at times he plays to protect himself from injury. The fact that we have many young players who can take his minutes makes him more easy to lose. His two year contract is much better in value than Amir's or JJ's.

Because Rozier was in the same draft class as Okafor, the Sixers get him for the same length of time on a rookie contract. Actually a much cheaper contract than Okafor's.

I believe Okafor's ceiling on the Celtics is a starter on a championship team and the Celtics are tying to get as many of those players as they can. If we could get him for Bradley and Rozier that is a win as I see it.