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CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers 95%

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Phokus, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Phokus

    Phokus Rookie

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  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    It doesn't "save" money, it just raises taxes more than it costs. It COSTS $940 Billion, basically a TRILLION dollars. The "savings" is taking that TRILLION dollars, and then some, out of the economy.

    Think of it this way. It costs over $1T each ten years. Then you have the so-called budget cut of $1.3T. That all comes from tax increases. So over 20 years you have a tax increase of $3.5T or so. If you think "the rich" will be paying all of that, without costing jobs, great. The reality is it will trickle down to all of us. The reality is that "the rich" are the ones who hire people. The reality is you can't take hundreds of billions out of the economy every year without it hitting the economy in very real ways.

    I don't believe that it will come close to these numbers. But even if it does, the amount of money being taken out of the economy is downright scary.

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/01/10/c...-consistently-wrong-on-health-care-estimates/

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/12/news/economy/debt_health_care.fortune/index.htm
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    The country is going to hell, this Obama guy needs to be impeached and all of congress needs to be replaced with fresh new faces.

    The Change He Promised:
    Things Have Changed To Worse
    Things were bad under Bush but nowhere as bad as they are becoming under Barack Hussein Obama, it's scary.

    End The Wars
    Close Gitmo
    yeah right.................:rolleyes:
  4. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    and the original projection for Medicare predicted out 25 years was a total cost estimate of $9 Billion when in actuality , it was $66 Billion. Several years ago the CATO institute did a great job of detailing by costs exceed estimates
    1) Congress doesn't like to tell the true cost of a program. It sounds better if they low ball it.
    2) People act rationally and alter behavior to maximize benefits and employers to minimize costs.
    3) Congress expands the entitlement to be all things to all people. The proverbial camel's nose under the tent.

    This will be no different.......and there is no way it will reduce the deficit
  5. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    If you had been on here complaining day and night about the bush tax cuts 2-3 trillion or the cost of the iraq war 1 trillion or so i would take you more seriously, but your c/o has been pretty one sided since i've been here :singing:
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  6. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    Do you always look back like this ? What's was done is done. It can't be changed. All we can do is what's ahead and this is going to add to the wreckage that is our economy.
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    Never mind that we were wrong then, we're right now.
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    I've never seen people so anxious to spend trillions of dollars. Especially when part of the argument for this debacle was "the uninsured just go to the more expensive emergency room anyway". If so, 1) why do we need to do this if they are still getting medical care and 2) why does it cost trillions when we were already paying anyway.

    It makes no sense.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    The best part about this horrid bill, is that Pelosi and Obama don't even know what's inside it. GROSS!
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    That was a very small part of "the argument," BC. More like a mention than an actual reason.

    It's pointless to endlessly rehash this fallacy with you but, just for the record, the "medical care" in an ER is not medical care - it is emergency care. It is temporary and costly and does absolutally nothing to treat the chronic illnesses that kill millions of Americans each year.

    Look, if it comes down to it - you can choose to pay trillions for the right reasons or the wrong reasons....If you insist on thinking that we pay trillions to ERs to treat indigent people then look at it this way - you're paying trillions for bandaids the way you see it now. Do it the other way and actually take those trillions and give people affordable health insurance and you've gone from paying for short term bandaids to paying for long term cures.

    You tell me which is more cost effective.
  11. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    Which is why I've said a million times that I am OK with basic stuff for actual, necessary medical needs. The problem is most is unneeded. We don't need the government paying for people to get free high blood pressure pills when exercise gets the job done. We don't need to pay for, say, Chiropractors, when that kind of thing is absolutely livable - I have a bad, sore back, I'm not wasting money going to a Chiropractor.

    If the damn country would get some exercise, eat better (and no, you don't have to be rich to do that) and only go to the doctor when they really need to then we would have far less waits and insurance premiums would do down as they'd be covering less. Heck, I'm 43 and except for getting my colon checked (as my mom died from colon cancer a year ago and her brother died from it before that) I haven't been to the doctor for . . . gosh . . . when I had a physical in high school maybe. We OVERUSE the medical community to try to make up for crappy lifestyles and having someone else pay for it will make it worse. Why don't we just pay $200 a month in "restaurant insurance" then get all we can eat all the time. Imagine how fat everyone would be, this is exactly the same thing. If I were running this, the first thing I'd do if some fat guy walked in is send him home and tell him to lose weight. If you still feel bad, come back when you aren't a big, fat pig. As a taxpayer I don't want to pay for medical problems brought on because some guy can't stop jamming food down his throat. And I know what it's like, I used to be 6'0", 245, disgusting pig, since 2002 I have been 6'0", 180. I've been there. Quit eating so much, get some exercise then go and see a doctor on taxpayers if you still don't feel good. Don't be a damn pig and expect the rest of us to pay for your heart surgeries.

    There, I feel better now.
  12. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/031810_Obama_Health_Care_web.pdf

    Before anyone jumps on the Fox name, more people were self identified Democrats than Republicans in the poll and Opinion Dynamics is a reasonable polling agency.

    Which one of the following do you think would be the best course of action
    for Congress to take on health care reform legislation this year -- pass the
    current health care reforms that are being considered, toss out the current
    legislation and start over, or do nothing on health care for now?

    Reform 30%
    Start Over 46%
    Do Nothing 19%
    Don't Know 4%
  13. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    HMM BF do you excersize, tell the truth. Last spring you said you were 5'11 and weighed 245 lbs......just sayin :singing: Or was that rock hard muscle.:rolleyes: :D
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  14. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    I think you are mistaking me for someone else or you misread my post back then. I USED TO be 6'0", 245. I am now 180, since 2002. I weigh myself every day, this morning I was 180.0. Nice. So you do the math. I now eat less and I exercise more. I'm not an exercise freak but I do 20-25 minutes on the nordic track and play soccer, etc, with the kids. That's all you need.

    This isn't about me - other than paying more in taxes and putting my kids more in debt, this bill won't affect me at all - as far as I know anyway. My point is that passing this health care bill will have far less effect on the country's health than if all the overweight people just lost some weight and lived healthier. Believe me, if I can do it - anyone can.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    Obama says "lets pass the bill and then we'll see whats in it"

    Thats the President of the United States Of America sticking it up the american people's ass.
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    It's good you lost weight, BC, really it is. You do understand, though, don't you, that it's not just "overweight fat pigs" who get sick, don't you? And that exercise and diet aren't magic potions? That sometimes genetics, enviornment and just plain luck of the draw have just as much to do with your longevity as anything else does?

    We got a call from my son's ex-girlfriend last night. Her 55 year old father, a total health nut - never smoked, never drank, exercises daily, eats nothing but healthy food and looks to be 20 years younger than he is and hasn't seen a doctor in probably 10 years - had been having some nausea and stomach pain for the last month. His wife finally talked him into seeing her doctor when he began running a fever the day before yesterday.

    The dr. didn't like the way he looked and sent him to the hospital where they decided his appendix might be the cause. They took him to surgery, opened him up and found that his appendix had, indeed, ruptured - but the cause of it was due to an enormous tumor growing in his colon and pressing against the appendix wall. They also found extensive cancers in his stomach, liver and pancreas. They removed everything they could and closed him back up.....he is currently in intensive care, still intubated and not expected to survive the infection from the peritonitis due to the appendix rupture long enough to die from the cancer. If he does, what the insurance company pays to keep him alive for 3 or 4 or 6 months is going to cost the other premium payers just as much as your fat pig would cost them. (Although he and his family have often discussed end-of-life care and he's always been adamant that he wanted nothing heroic and if it's time, it's time and so maybe it won't - but that has nothing to do with the cost of care and everthing to do with making sure your wishes are known to your family beforehand. That dreadful death panel discussion, you know.)

    Taking care of yourself helps, BC, but it doesn't protect you, in the end we all die - and death is almost always expensive - way more expensive than a $4.00 a month blood pressure script, anyhow.)
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    I get that. All I was trying to say is the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for, or subsidize, medical care for those who don't take care of themselves. If this bill were trimmed down to things which are actually necessary as opposed to convenient it wouldn't be costing $1T every 10 years. There's a difference between knowing something is really wrong vs. having your blood test say you have high cholesterol and having the taxpayers pay for your pills when going for a nice walk every night would make the difference. What I do and what shape I'm in is irrelevant. The fact that many people will overuse the medical system when someone else is paying is very relevant.
  18. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    Only 180 no wonder your so cranky :D I have to give it up to you most people can't do what you did. It was you i dropped an inch for dramatic purposes.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  19. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    I have a before and after picture - I look like I was about to give birth on the before picture, that and my trusty scale are all it takes :)

    Of course, my weekday menu is :

    Breakfast : 2 hot dogs (no bun) (300 calories)
    Lunch : 1 bag microwaved steamed veggies (150 calories)
    Dinner : 3 slices of wheat bread with butter (400 calories)

    That's a total of 850. Knock off 300 from Nordic Track leaves 550. Which isn't nearly enough to live off of; therefore weight loss.

    On weekends I treat myself to normal eating and on weekdays I'll sneak a 100 calorie pack of something if I've been good. I've been doing this for 8 years, it's OK once you get used to it.

    Again, though, it's not about me it's about an attitude. It's a continuation of the bailouts instead of financial responsibility. Instead of taking responsibility for a healthy lifestyle and body we want to do nothing, eat what we want and be "bailed out" by a magic pill or procedure that will make everything good. And we want to spend trillions on it. This bill may help a little and may hurt. But nothing can solve the healthcare problem without people living healthier lifestyles.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  20. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Re: CBO: Health-care reform bill cuts deficit by $1.3 trillion over 20 years, covers

    550 calories thats a concentration camp/Biafra diet. Its a wonder you don't kiel over.

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