CBA Approval Status

[DaBruinz]

I can see the players wanting to take a day off for Martha Kraft, but today was not excuse for not to meet about the deal. I'm getting so pissed off right now about this. A funeral is from 10-12. Have another conference call from 2-8 or however long it takes.

The players are acting like babies here. Half of them don't even know how to read.

And if this was flipped and the players passed the deal, I would have said the same thing about the owners

I'll be honest. I have no issue with them not meeting today because of the funeral. MYRA was like a 2nd mother to many of the Patriots players, past and present. We saw that from all the tweets.. And I can guarantee you that there was a lot going on after the funeral at the Krafts house. In fact, I'm pretty sure that all the Pats players, past and present went over there afterwards for some time.. That's normal..

What galls me is this idea that they can't meet on the weekend to get this taken care of.

The irony is that the longer they drag this out, the more it goes against everything that Myra stood for..

 

[Frezo]

Lost in this fustercluck is all the hourly people who lose their income working pre-season games. These folks do not make 6 figures. They depend upon these gigs to pay the rent. Previously I was wicked pissed at the owners for jeapordizing these folks' paychecks. But no, we can't expect players reps to get together post 2 hour funeral and spend like a weekend day validating the final agreement. They would lose face.

It's not just the thousands of stadium personnel, but the vendors and their workers, public and private transit companies, production crews and their motor carriers, ticket agencies, TV studio crews, etc., etc. The total disruption to unemployment, while not staggering, will surely be felt. Just as disturbing is the lost taxes to local and federal governments? It numbers in millions I can't begin to calculate. These idiots have picked a really bad time to act like self absorbed babies. We ought to ship their asses off to Afghanistan and see what they think about making 3K a month while getting blown up and shot at.

 

[strngplyr]

Each week of lost preseaon costs the NFL owners $200 million in revenue. Are they just supposed to eat it, so the NFLPA* can look like tough guys?

So far the most watched preseason game has already been cancelled, probably at a cost of $100 million in revenue.

I expect next Monday or Tuesday another week of preseason will be lost. By my reckoning the CAP fro 2011 should decreases by $300/32 or ($6.25 plus $3.125 million). So if the CAP was set to be $120 miilion it should be reset at $110.50 and by midweek next down to $104.37 million.

Tata Players, Have a Nice Day.

It's not only the owners losing, the players lose ~90m and the owners lose ~110m is what they've been saying on NFLN, it's 200m that everyone is losing. So the players don't want to miss preseason weeks anymore than the owners do.

They really need to stop jerking off behind the scenes and get their acts together.

 

[DaBruinz]

I thought it was actually a little more than $200 million per preseason game, when taking into account the tv revenue and because many of the clubs have promises STHs food and beverage credits for each cancelled game. I think the NFLPA has a $200 to $300 million poker chip to play with right now, and I don't begrudge them using it. I think that's really all it is -- if they give it the weekend, they may get a minor concession on something in the final negotiations. It's just negotiation, and both sides have been doing it. The deal ultimately will get done in plenty of time; the players are just using the last bit of leverage they have.

Frankly, I'd be delighted if they end up cancelling a preseason game. I hate that I have to pay for 10 games to see 8 good ones. Whether the players or owners pay for it, I don't care. For what they've put us through for the last 4 months, saving a couple of hundred bucks plus getting a food and beverage credit is just fine with me.

You don't get it.. The negotiating was supposed to have been DONE. The settlement agreement taken to the owners to vote on was just that. An agreement between the owners and players to get the season started. Going back after the fact and disputing things as "changes" that weren't changes at all and trying to get MORE is BS and is negotiating in bad faith.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

You don't get it.. The negotiating was supposed to have been DONE. The settlement agreement taken to the owners to vote on was just that. An agreement between the owners and players to get the season started. Going back after the fact and disputing things as "changes" that weren't changes at all and trying to get MORE is BS and is negotiating in bad faith.

According to who? ESPN? Mort?

No deal is done until it's truly done. I've done dozens or maybe hundreds of settlements and deals, and every one of them goes like this. The fighting and changes and "you already agreed to X" goes on until it doesn't, and then it's done. No deal is truly done until both sides have screamed "bad faith" at least twice.

There's going to be football. Soon. If it's important to anyone to be angry at one side or the other fine. Wasted energy to me, but to each his or her own and I guess it gives us something to do during the lockout.

 

[Sivy]

I hear both sides are now going to be working through the weekend to get the deal done.

 

[BlueThunder]

I hear both sides are now going to be working through the weekend to get the deal done.

DeMoron Smith spent almost 2 hrs talking to Goodell to get the final details settled....THEN he goes back to the NFLPA reps with NOTHING?

Fax the agreement...email it...f*ckin Tweet it for all I care....

To NOT work the weekend on this is assinine.....

 

[Wolfpack]

I thought it was actually a little more than $200 million per preseason game, when taking into account the tv revenue and because many of the clubs have promises STHs food and beverage credits for each cancelled game. I think the NFLPA has a $200 to $300 million poker chip to play with right now, and I don't begrudge them using it.

It's not per game, it's per week. I'm not sure if that's what you meant or not.

But it isn't exactly a no-lose situation for the players if games are missed. Less revenue means less money going to the salary cap. So the players as a group will suffer a bit financially if there is no preseason.

I think they're stalling so they can report to camp as late as possible while not missing any preseason games (other than the lone HoF game).

 

[37Harrison]

Are we there yet?

 

[DaBruinz]

According to who? ESPN? Mort?

No deal is done until it's truly done. I've done dozens or maybe hundreds of settlements and deals, and every one of them goes like this. The fighting and changes and "you already agreed to X" goes on until it doesn't, and then it's done. No deal is truly done until both sides have screamed "bad faith" at least twice.

There's going to be football. Soon. If it's important to anyone to be angry at one side or the other fine. Wasted energy to me, but to each his or her own and I guess it gives us something to do during the lockout.

The only reason the owners were VOTING on the deal was because the negotiating was supposed to have been DONE. That's what the numerous owners said. Maybe if you followed what was going on instead of jibberjabbering your own rhetoric about "your experience" you'd be up to date.

 

[EJ Blitz]

DeMoron Smith spent almost 2 hrs talking to Goodell to get the final details settled....THEN he goes back to the NFLPA reps with NOTHING?

Fax the agreement...email it...f*ckin Tweet it for all I care....

To NOT work the weekend on this is assinine.....

DeMoron Smith... I see what you did there.

 

[DarrylS]

Way too much f...ing drama for this fan, schedule a vote and stop playing games of one upsmanship.. they are beginning to sound like they have "DC Beltway Disease"...

Get the f..ing thing done..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Florio has a summary of the supposed open items in the agreement as of Wednesday. The owners closed a couple of them in the agreement. Others either remain open or were closed by omission (my guess, things the owners have said all along won't fly).

The owners agreed to a catestrophic injury guarantee that pays the player $1M of his year 2 salary and $500K of his year 3 salary. I assume this relates to rookies although it could also relate to end of roster guys who typically sign short term deals with little signing bonus. Players wanted $3M per year. The average NFL player only makes $2M and the median is under $1M. So I'm fine with what the owners agreed to, it adds a safety net to the guys who need it most because they aren't making mid 7 figure deals with existing guaranteed salary contractual obligations.

The players were asking for a game day active of up to 47 and an in season IR. Not sure why they care - historically the union wanted IR to protect players from being forced back onto the field at risk of their career. The owners went with no IR changes and increased gameday active to 46 (although eliminating the 3rd QB exemption).

The cash cap was apparently still open with the proposal at 89% for teams and 95% for the league. The owners increased the league minimum to 99% for the first 2 years and 95% thereafter. Sounds like a fair compromise.

Seems after settling the rookie pay scale the union wanted that tweeked to include a 3rd year base pay escalator to the RFA tender...Don't know what the owners said but I'd assume it was no...

The union wanted the California workmans comp filing loophole left intact. Seems the owners refused to since I did hear it had been closed. I'd have to file where I worked.

They also wanted the franchise tag limited to 1 time use. The owners approval left it unchanged (can still be used 3X).

The union wanted their off season workout bonuses paid to any player who showed up ready to work. Not sure what the owners said about that. It counts on the cap so whatever. I figured they might agree to it based on players providing documentation that they worked out X days (most of those bonuses are paid out on a % of attendance at the # of workouts conducted by the team which is usually 50 or so sessions).

It's the last couple of items that seem to be the real sticking points. The owners said all the pending legal matters are simply dismissed. They've been saying that would be a requirement of any deal all along. The players apparently want that $320M their union bargained away in 2010 in exchange for an uncapped year to be paid to them now as settlement of the "Doty" case. LOL The only award to date in that case was the $6M the Special Master awarded in arbitration. The players don't seem to realize that whatever Doty awarded was going to be appealed to the 8th and likely substantially reduced anyway. It was never going to amount to what they are asking for. They also want a seperate settlement for the "Brady" case. Not specified but I imagine that is where the plaintiff compensation issue has arisen from.


The open items before the league’s approval of the labor deal | ProFootballTalk

 

[Urgent]

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Here is another summation of the remaining issues. About the same only pared to 6 and most seem to be non-negotiable. The players simply aren't going to get them and they've been told that at the highest levels for a while now. Period. I suppose you could make a case for the opt out, but at what expense... There is a tru up after 2012 and that should be sufficient projection for the players financial interest going forward.

I also read that Vonnie Holliday now claims when the reps went home Wednesday evening after reviewing the deal they were told there were 7-10 of negotiating left to be done. Ergo that is why they were shocked that the owners voted. If that is the associations position then they should have prepared them for the possibility that in the process they might lose money...

Don't want to hit except when it suits them, don't want to practice much or hard, don't want a pre season, don't want an organized off season, not sure they want to be in a union, just want the money.

Six key things the NFL players want before they agree to sign off on ending the lockout

 

[Uncle Rico]

...
Don't want to hit except when it suits them, don't want to practice much or hard, don't want a pre season, don't want an organized off season, not sure they want to be in a union, just want the money. ...

Somewhere in the coverage I've been watching I heard a great quote from a team exec. He said the players pretty much have been given everything except the right to have someone else actually play for them.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Another trademark post...

Because if they don't vote on a deal the players have nothing to vote on...:bricks:

And if they hadn't voted on the deal they've been working on for the last 132 days the players would have claimed they just want to play and they made a fair proposal and the owners are the ones holding up the whole process...

The players representatives are stalling on closing the deal because they live and hope they can squeeze something more out of the owners. In every negotiation there comes an end date by which it's time to take a vote. This is it. If the players feel pressured or rushed that's too damn bad. This has been going on for months. They always knew the end game had to include the lawsuits being dismissed and the union recertifying because otherwise there can be no CBA. We want to play is just hollow rhetoric. This is largely an ego driven pissing contest at this juncture based on the union wanting to appear to dictate terms or control the process. The owners don't have time for any more games. If you want camps to open on time (the majority of them open the end of next week and the earliest were scheduled to open today) and provide sufficient leeway for easing players into them physically and contractually, this is it. If it drags on past the middle of next week then the entire pre season is at risk for safety reasons the players claim are paramoung to them and financial losses will change the financial parameters of this deal and players will get less money this season and the cap will be recalculated.

there was NOTHING to vote on for the owners since Mankins and VJ are holding the thing up w/ their pissed off crusade to land huge bucks from the last season. A lot pivoted around them and their approval of this was paramount. If they don't approve it seems like we are at a loss b/c they unfortunately need to walk the CBA passed the gates; the CBA needs the blessing from Logan Mankins.

I think VJ is still w/ Mankins holding this up. Bottom line- There is NOTHING to vote on owners, since 2 disgruntled players control the NFL's fate this year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Somewhere in the coverage I've been watching I heard a great quote from a team exec. He said the players pretty much have been given everything except the right to have someone else actually play for them.

Yup. Great quote. They even got six figure fines for coaches and team who violate the new practice rules. Next time around coaches should be unionized so they can get a seat at the table since team performance generally dictates whether they even have a job...

Seems over the last 24 the ASSociation* has stood down on franchise tag issues. Schefter is reporting that Jackson is finally officially willing to do what he claimed on twitter days ago he never asked for, out of the tag or $cash. The others of course claimed in statements they never asked either, but if it is no longer on the list of unresolved issues whoever asked on their behalf must have finally gotten the message.

They still want the $320M they aren't entitled to but I imagine that too will go away. Like it or not, and I think they do when it comes to grievance protection and demands, the union recertification issue was never up for debate.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

there was NOTHING to vote on for the owners since Mankins and VJ are holding the thing up w/ their pissed off crusade to land huge bucks from the last season. A lot pivoted around them and their approval of this was paramount. If they don't approve it seems like we are at a loss b/c they unfortunately need to walk the CBA passed the gates; the CBA needs the blessing from Logan Mankins.

I think VJ is still w/ Mankins holding this up. Bottom line- There is NOTHING to vote on owners, since 2 disgruntled players control the NFL's fate this year.

Catch up solderking, this thing is more complex and issues change faster than your limited capacity grasps...

 

[Ring 6]

Yup. Great quote. They even got six figure fines for coaches and team who violate the new practice rules. Next time around coaches should be unionized so they can get a seat at the table since team performance generally dictates whether they even have a job...

Seems over the last 24 the ASSociation* has stood down on franchise tag issues. Schefter is reporting that Jackson is finally officially willing to do what he claimed on twitter days ago he never asked for, out of the tag or $cash. The others of course claimed in statements they never asked either, but if it is no longer on the list of unresolved issues whoever asked on their behalf must have finally gotten the message.

They still want the $320M they aren't entitled to but I imagine that too will go away. Like it or not, and I think they do when it comes to grievance protection and demands, the union recertification issue was never up for debate.

How can they even entertain not recertifying? You cant have a CBA without a union.