CB Tory James signed, per Schefter/Clayton/Reiss

[pats1]

Nah. This ***** got dressed down (politely) by myself and (a little less politely) dabruinz on the draft forum yesterday, so his response is to actively seeks out our posts so he can respond with either:

1) Where's your evidence? (Especially entertaining when we're discussing our opinions), or

2) We don't want to hear about your opinion, where's the proof? (Also used often in discussions of opinion.

I had him ignored, but I started missing the comedy.

That's all fine and good, but this thread is about Tory James. If you want to take something up with patsgo, please take it to PMs.

 

[JDSal45]

Left eye, Right eye, fourth team in his career, available as cheap free agent on April 17 in a market that is practically void of cornerbacks.

How's that?

I mean, really, what in my post are you disagreeing with? That he was good with the Raiders? That he has significantly declined since then? That he's in competition for a depth role? Or that he'll probably be cut?

He's 34 y.o. but he wasn't in 2004. And reports indicate he had 4 other teams that made offers.

I'm disagreeing he had significantly declined as of 2004, the best year of his career. Maybe he has since then, but that wasn't your original point. And he is still a solid player. Why will he probably be cut? Again, zero evidence.

I say he plays here, contributes and possibly even starts. But we shall see Swami.

J D Sal

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Tory James signed, per Schefter

That's a quick merge. A+.

Also, I know next-to-nothing about Tory James. Good pickup, or what?

He was the corner on the Raiders during the snow bowl game.

TBP

 

[dryheat44]

I say he plays here, contributes and possibly even starts. But we shall see Swami.

J D Sal

Indeed we shall. My framework for thinking he might be cut is that I don't think he's better than Chad Scott or Ray Mickens (if re-signed). I think he's on the bottom of the totem pole at CB, and to my knowledge, he doesn't play special teams.

Now, if Samuel and Gay go elsewhere, then that's another story. I don't want to contemplate that now, though.

 

[dryheat44]

take a deep breath, relax,this is only football, but with the amount of time spent here its way more important to you, if you dont have evidence to back up your opinions dont state them, relax take a deep breath,

Look up "opinion" in the dictionary. I'll bet you don't find the word "evidence" anywhere in there.

But enough's enough. This has gone on too long as it is.

 

[tombonneau]

How do people think that a guy who was an average starting NFL CB is going to be on the bottom of the depth chart, let alone not make the roster?

He will be battling Gay for the nickel spot going into TC. That's a simple fact. You don't pay a vet CB (who was just starting) $1M+ in guaranteed to not make the team.

He would have to play HORRIBLY to get cut. I don't think that will happen.

You can argue he will suck and get cut, but, Asante aside, I'm sure he was signed with the full intention of battling for the #3 CB spot.

 

[patfanken]

When I think of Tory James, I don't think of a guy that played for the Bungles, I think of OTIS Smith. This is a guy we can match up against red zone tall WRs. This is guy who can play that agressive short zone defense with help over the top. This is someone who can get physical with WRs.

In other words this is what OTIS Smith did for us when HE was 34 in a starting role. We have come a long way since 2004. All we are asking James, is to do it in situational defenses.

 

[mgteich]

I expect that Tory James will be ahead of Gay almost as soon as camp starts.
He will be competing with Chad Scott as the starter opposite Hobbs, with the loser of the competition being the nickel. Gay is the #4. This presumes that Samuel is not ready to play in Game One and that a draftee isn't a starter.

Tory James is a major pickup. He is indeed comparable to O-T-I-S. We still need a Day One corner if we can get a quality one.

When I think of Tory James, I don't think of a guy that played for the Bungles, I think of OTIS Smith. This is a guy we can match up against red zone tall WRs. This is guy who can play that agressive short zone defense with help over the top. This is someone who can get physical with WRs.

In other words this is what OTIS Smith did for us when HE was 34 in a starting role. We have come a long way since 2004. All we are asking James, is to do it in situational defenses.

 

[The 12th Man]

How do people think that a guy who was an average starting NFL CB is going to be on the bottom of the depth chart, let alone not make the roster?

He will be battling Gay for the nickel spot going into TC. That's a simple fact. You don't pay a vet CB (who was just starting) $1M+ in guaranteed to not make the team.

He would have to play HORRIBLY to get cut. I don't think that will happen.

You can argue he will suck and get cut, but, Asante aside, I'm sure he was signed with the full intention of battling for the #3 CB spot.

Did I miss something? I could have sworn the contract wasn't guaranteed, at least not anywhere close to a million. There are incentive, but ...

 

[JDSal45]

Indeed we shall. My framework for thinking he might be cut is that I don't think he's better than Chad Scott or Ray Mickens (if re-signed). I think he's on the bottom of the totem pole at CB, and to my knowledge, he doesn't play special teams.

Now, if Samuel and Gay go elsewhere, then that's another story. I don't want to contemplate that now, though.

He's not better than Scott or Mickens, who was available well into the season? And how is this consistent with your "logic" regarding James being available in April? Mickens was available in October for crying out loud. He has never made a Pro Bowl, nor has Scott.

Also, some quotes from his Bengals profile:
"Had superb all-around game in victory Nov. 23 at San Diego, leading team in tackles with nine (eight solo), tying for lead in special teams tackles (three) and passes defensed (two)"

" In regular season, had 12 tackles (10 solo) and two passes defensed, plus 12 tackles and a fumble recovery on special teams"

Those are just examples. There are 8 separate quotes/stats/highlights that were on his bio for special teams play. He can play them. Facts are funny things. Of course Belichick will utilize this.

J D Sal

 

[zippo59]

Doesn't mean he was good, means QBs picked on him a lot to avoid Deltha O'Neal, who is mediocre in his own right.

Using that argument Champ Bailey must really suck because he had 10 interceptions.

 

[BelichickFan]

Using that argument Champ Bailey must really suck because he had 10 interceptions.

Someone should tell Samuel that he blows too

 

[patsgo]

Look up "opinion" in the dictionary. I'll bet you don't find the word "evidence" anywhere in there.

But enough's enough. This has gone on too long as it is.

mr. dry heat your a hypocrite, ihad stated a opinion that ivy league schools are weak and i wouldnt spend a 3 0r a 4 on deossie, infact, can you tell me the last ivy leaguer drafted that high? you cant because they are all projects which is fine, my "opinion was to draft him later 6 or 7 " but you and you r buddys kept telling me to come up with "evidence" that the ivy league and deossie were worthy of a 6 or 7 pick. my "opinion for you is practice what you preach

 

[dryheat44]

Using that argument Champ Bailey must really suck because he had 10 interceptions.

I don't know what to tell you. You can draw whatever conclusions from Stats you want to. Does the number of interceptions measure the worth of a cornerback? In 2006 James had 4. In 2005 he had 5, while the other corner, O'Neal had 10. O'Neal must have been twice as good. In 2004, James had 8 and O'Neal had 4. Check that, James must have been twice as good. In 2003, James had 4. So that's 21 in 4 years, Those are good numbers, no doubt.

In that span, Samuel has 16, Mathis has 20, McAllister has 11, Sheppard has 15, Tillman has 14, O'Neal has 16, Bly has 19, and Lucas has 16. I'm willing to bet any NFL personnel men would have them rated as better cornerbacks. I don't know anybody who thought Ty Law was the best corner in football two years ago when he had 10 picks for the Jets...Or that he had a better season than those years with the Patriots he had 4-6.

If Samuel and Gay remain Patriots, and we're bringing in James as a reserve player, I'd just as soon stick with the reserve players who know the system.

We just disagree. Ooh-ooh-ooh, whoa-whoa-whoa.

 

[dryheat44]

mr. dry heat your a hypocrite, ihad stated a opinion that ivy league schools are weak and i wouldnt spend a 3 0r a 4 on deossie, infact, can you tell me the last ivy leaguer drafted that high? you cant because they are all projects which is fine, my "opinion was to draft him later 6 or 7 " but you and you r buddys kept telling me to come up with "evidence" that the ivy league and deossie were worthy of a 6 or 7 pick. my "opinion for you is practice what you preach

"Sir" Go re-read that thread. If you still have further issue, PM me, or bring it back to that thread and we'll discuss it there.

 

[AzPatsFan]

When I think of Tory James, I don't think of a guy that played for the Bungles, I think of OTIS Smith. This is a guy we can match up against red zone tall WRs. This is guy who can play that aggressive short zone defense with help over the top. This is someone who can get physical with WRs.

In other words this is what OTIS Smith did for us when HE was 34 in a starting role. We have come a long way since 2004. All we are asking James, is to do it in situational defenses.

Patfanken,

Once again you penetrate to the exact situations that BB will try to use him. He is a play maker and a turnover artist, as was OTIS,but who had more intrinsic coverage ability. You have to control the gambling by deep help and let them make the INTs that they have the talent to do so. I could actually see him playing as one of the outside CBs while letting the quicker, smaller Hobbs play the quicker slot guys.

Technically that would make Tory a "starter" but in reality he is a third or fourth CB. It also frees Chad Scott to go to Safety reserve full time. The secondary get more fearsome with Samuels and James as INT threats and the Safeties being much better coverage players than typical Safeties, as Wilson, Hawkins and Scott are all ex-CBs. So except for SS Sanders and the reserve SS Rodney Harrison, the pass coverage is excellent.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Patfanken,

Once again you penetrate to the exact situations that BB will try to use him. He is a play maker and a turnover artist, as was OTIS,but who had more intrinsic coverage ability. You have to control the gambling by deep help and let them make the INTs that they have the talent to do so. I could actually see him playing as one of the outside CBs while letting the quicker, smaller Hobbs play the quicker slot guys.

Technically that would make Tory a "starter" but in reality he is a third or fourth CB. It also frees Chad Scott to go to Safety reserve full time. The secondary get more fearsome with Samuels and James as INT threats and the Safeties being much better coverage players than typical Safeties, as Wilson, Hawkins and Scott are all ex-CBs. So except for SS Sanders and the reserve SS Rodney Harrison, the pass coverage is excellent.

Add Laron Landry or any of the other top 3 safeties to that defense and you wouldn't have any coverage holes. Of course this is before Asante gets traded... Waiting for that shoe to drop.

 

[Seymour93]

It's official.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=24935&pcid=47


Ughhhhh... hope the forum is back up to speed soon.

 

[Dragda]

Quality depth signing. 50-50 odds he doesn't make it out of camp.

 

[Kdo5]

The Bengals fans say he sucks. He constantly gets burned and lets up about 13 yards per catch. Feels like a Warfield type of signing.