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Cassel's contract (and effect on the deal)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by makewayhomer, Mar 1, 2009.

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  1. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

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    Cassel has not signed any new deal besides the 1 year franchise deal

    I had assumed that any team trading for him would want a deal in place for the long term - otherwise they are risking a high draft pick for 1 year of a player, which is a disaster. this is of course what KC is currently risking.

    is it possible that this is an angle many people are missing? KC paid less than many projected b/c they were willing to risk taking Cassel on without a long term deal.

    Perhaps TB would have spent more but required a deal in hand. I mean, I can't imagine spending a 1st and 3rd and having no assurances that you are receiving more than 1 year in return.

    side note to all this is that many people are may be underestimating what it will take to sign MC long term. he has $15m guaranteed for 1 year. how much guaranteed money would it take over 4 or 5 years? $25m? $35m? this may end up being a big sticking point
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  2. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When this news came out (i saw it Saturday evening),
    it cleared up all my perplexity.

    Matt is going after the really big killing - not just a big killing -
    and taking all the one-year-deal risk onto himself.
    Grabbing for himself every morsel of value available in the transaction.

    So much for any "gratitude to the club that nurtured him"
    that we all were imputing to him.
    <sigh> Ah, well.
  3. nowayback

    nowayback Rookie

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    definately had an impact! on the one hand i am glad...i can root against him.

    he was really willin got stay with pats for 15 mil.....then he wouls see what was out there.
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    It's actually in Cassel's best interest to sign a fat long term deal ASAP than risk waiting a year and having a mediocre performance drive his market value down. Cassel is now the man in KC. I think his agent is negotiating as we speak but it shouldn't take too long to happen. KC also presumably doesn't want to be stuck with a 14.6M cap hit this year and can reduce that greatly with a new contract.
  5. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    Is there a possibility that further compensation could be forthcoming when Cassel signs a long term contract?
  6. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

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    sure - but what kind of contract is acceptable. remember he is making $15m guaranteed for 1 year.

    I think the floor is the Aaron Rodgers/Garrard contracts which had $20m in guaranteed money. and I doubt that would be enough - neither of those guys had $15m guaranteed sitting in their back pocket

    more likely he is looking for a Tony Romo deal with $30m guaranteed
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  7. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I'm thinking Aaron Rodgers money. I think we'll know pretty soon when the ink finally dries on the contract. The media is going to be all over that one.
  8. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    I think the Romo deal is just about what Cassel would get long-term. A solid year in KC and he could demand some serious money.
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Personally, I was always perplexed why Cassel signed the franchise tender and thought it wasn't in his best interest. I always thought all along that there could be a team that was willing to trade for Cassel without doing a new deal. It actually may be the be smarter way to deal with Cassel if you have any doubts about him.

    Now Pioli can easily fit him under the cap with the franchise tender. If he pans out, Pioli gives him a big long term deal or franchises him again. If he craps the bed, all Pioli is out is a second round pick and $14.6 million rather than $20-30 million in guarantees (or based on the contracts this year, maybe $30-40 million).
  10. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    That's a really good question. I would assume that the answer is no, but I'd like to hear from one of our CBA experts on whether that would be legal under the CBA.
  11. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I agree completely, and have been saying this repeatedly.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As many of us have said since the tag was first suggested, placing a tag on Cassel put him in the driver's seat. He called the shots once he signed. How many teams does anyone think offered the patriots a first WITH NO SIGNED DEAL WITH CASSEL? I believe the answer is exactly one. Maybe there is a handshake agreement that Cassel will work in good faith to negoatiate a long-term deal with KC. So what! It is Cassel who has the $14.6M guaranteed as a start of a deal that he must accept. If Cassel made that representation, perhaps Pioli would believe that they could get it done. Would other teams take the same chance? In the end, it is both Pioli's and Cassel's interest to get a deal done. But if there is no deal, Cassel is in fine shape.
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Maybe, but HOW fat it is starts from the negotiating position that he can play one year for millions of dollars more than he's actually worth.
  14. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    I don't see why not. It could have gone something like this.

    Pioli: "Bill, I understand that you want the cap space right now, but it will take some time to finalize a contract with Matt. I will trade the 2nd round pick for the tendered contract and Vrabel. If/when a contract is signed, we'll change the compensation to...."

    Belichick: "Thanks my friend. That works for me."
  15. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I doubt it's a CBA question. The CBA restricts what kinds of incentives can be in player contracts, but I doubt it speaks to terms among teams on trades.
  16. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I'd say it didn't happen, because if it did than the press release is false as written.
  17. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How exactly did he get put in the driver's seat. If I remember correctly, you said exactly zero teams would trade for Cassel without a deal done. Maybe Pioli feels either Cassel will sign a contract under his terms or he is happy to keep him as a one year tender and franchise him or resign him next year.

    Pioli had to go into this trade knowing there is a real possibility that he and Cassel will not get a long term deal done. Or a deal would already be in place. Pioli is rolling the dice.

    As for another team being willing to roll the dice, we may never know. We do know that one would and that is one more than most people on this board thought would roll the dice and trade for Cassel without a deal in place.

    If you look at the contracts being thrown around out there, the fact that next year may be an uncapped year, and even Pioli may have some doubt whether Cassel will be the real deal; I don't think Pioli is under any pressure to get a deal done this season. If Cassel is reasonable in his demands, fine. Otherwise, the Chiefs can give him a year tryout and then franchise him or let him go next year depending how he turns out. Considering this is the QB position, the franchise number isn't much higher than his salaries and guarantees.
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I continue to be amazed at those who suggest that Matt Cassel is worth anywhere near $14.6M for his services in the 2009 season, especially for a poor team. My congratulations to Matt, his agent, and the media, on their joint campaign to make Matt rich.

    BTW, I think we did very well to get the #34 pick in this draft for Matt. If we had traded with Tenn, most would have agreed since we would have gotten a first. I suspect most would have agreed if we received a 2010 1st and 3nd which, depending on team, is about the same in value to what we got.

    Before the hype, most of us would have been fine with a 2010 first or the #34 in this draft.

  19. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

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    no no no. MC taking $15m guaranteed was a great move. his worst case scenario is now being set for life. his best case scenario is...much better.

    wo the tag teams wouldn't have had to bid against the $15m min guaranteed now someone will.
    b/c:

    spending pick 34 on 1 year of a decent player is a disaster. it's a complete waste

    the only way this is close is if this 1 year gets you a SB win. but the Chiefs have no designs on this this year
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spending Pick #34 and $14.6M is even worse.

  21. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The understanding below would have been a reasonable contract to sign. Conditional picks in contracts are common. They chose NOT to sign such a contract.

  22. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The alternative is about $25 million in guarantees. Four years ago, the Saints basically gave Drew Brees a one year deal worth $10 million. Considering he was only good for about a year and a half (no where as good as he is now) and coming off a major injury, he is as big as a risk as Cassel is today. Based on the increases in salary, $14.6 million is not that much of an increase.

    Cassel is worth based on this year's contracts vs. previous QB contracts probably around $10 million a year maybe $11-12 million. So an extra $4.6 million is not that much more. Pioli will be hoping he doesn't have a long term deal in place if Cassel goes out there this year and throws for 2,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 18 INTs. Because a long term contract would be far worse for him.

    It's not whether he is worth $14.6 million (because he if he gets a long term deal, his average yearly salary won't be that much less). It's whether Cassel's salary demands are out of whack or not and Pioli has any doubts about him. If Cassel is looking for something like $30 million in guarantees (which isn't all that crazy considering what other players are getting), the smarter route might be to just let him play under the franchise tender and see how it goes.

    The Chiefs are well under the cap and would be paying that $14.6 million to someone(s) if not Cassel.
  23. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, there would need to be a conditional part to the trade in writing. I doubt there would be anything under the table.
  24. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    One thing that is not even being talked about... if Cassel does only do the 1 year contract, he is a FA next year. In a potential uncapped season, the Jets have the capital to give Cassel a blank check to get him on the team. Makes me wonder if the reason the Jets are not going after a QB is because they expect to get one next year.
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ok, so now you're saying the going rate for a one-year deal for a QB one isn't sure of is $14.6M?? Personally, I don't think the cost would be anywhere near that high if Pioli were to sign another "veteran" quarterback with the hope that he would produce and sign a long-term contract after the season was over, or even during the season.

  26. Trocadile

    Trocadile Rookie

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    But, under the current CBA, he would not be an unrestricted FA. In 2010, unrestricted free agency would be for 6+ year vets and he would have finished his 5th year.
  27. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the going rate was $10 million back in 2006, $14.6 million isn't that far off.

    I still think the franchise tender might be the safer route for the Chiefs. Obviously Pioli doesn't mind risking that he is going to the season with only a franchise tender because if they were close to having a deal in place at the time of the trade, it would be done now. Pioli has to know that there is a chance that Cassel will not be signed.

    If Pioli made this trade with the understanding that he cannot go into the season with Cassel making $14.6 million, he is far dumber than I thought. It would give Cassel all the bargaining power.
  28. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

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    well the alternative is doing no deal at all

    huge difference - Brees was never traded for pick 34. HUGE difference

    yeah whats another 50% / $4m between friends.

    theres a flip side to that coin


    yes it will be. also it's not AAV that matters, its the guaranteed monet

    if you're not gonna sign him to a long term deal then why trade for him in the first place??
    if he has a great year then you're ****ed, he'll just be a UFA
  29. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, he would be a RFA and eventhough the tender would be about $18 million, the Jets would have to give up a first and third to get him. I think if Cassel does play this year without a long term deal and plays as good or better than he played down the stretch in 2008, Cassel will have a new contract in place before the end of the season. I am sure that if Cassel comes out on fire in September and October, Pioli would have a deal in place by December.
  30. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

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    but why would Cassel sign? better off to hit the open market
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