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Cassel Will Screw Up...A Lot

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by skri65, Sep 12, 2008.

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  1. skri65

    skri65 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    He's bound to. Most QBs take three years to fully get the grasp of the starting QB position.

    Any QB who comes into the league and begins his starting career screws up. It happened to Tom Brady, it happened to Peyton Manning. He will throw interceptions (likely to throw at least one this Sunday), and he will make bad decisions. He will overly rely on Randy Moss and miss out on open receivers (hell, even Brady did that on occasion). He will hold onto the ball to long. He will fumble the ball. All of this WILL happen, and it WILL happen more than we're used to. That is for CERTAIN.

    This will be part of the process. I have faith in Cassel, I really do. But I hope everyone here understand this will be a process with (hopefully) many ups, but there will certainly be a fair share of downs as well. There are a fair amount of bandwagon fans here that only understand success. Having a HOF QB starting our games every week is a priviledge and it is incredibly unusual.

    I have faith in BB and his ability to coach and protect his own teams weaknesses. We are no longer the best team in the league and I hope everyone understand this: we are likely NOT going to win the superbowl this year. It certainly could happen, but our chances are considerably low.

    Cassel will screw up a lot this year and I hope everyone understands that. My only hope is that it will happen rarely enough where we can win more games than we lose.

    Before anyone here harps on me, I DO think we will make the playoffs this year. And from there, it's one game at a time. This is more a test of BB than anyone this year.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  2. Phlash

    Phlash On the Game Day Roster

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    He can't throw an interception if he's handing off the ball. I expect him to be doing exactly that this Sunday, a lot.
     
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No doubt we will be throwing less with Cassel instead of Brady but I don't think the number has to drop a significant amount. It shouldn't your 2 best offensive weapons are WR.
     
  4. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    You know something else we will see with Cassel that we didn't see with Brady? Mobility. That doesn't make up for everything else Cassel lacks but the guy can make plays on his own.
     
  5. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    Yeah, I agree. It'll be pretty easy to prepare to face the Patriots if our offense becomes one dimensional in any capacity.
     
  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just dont understand where you are coming from.
    You sound like the expectation is perfection. That any playthat doesnt go our way is a screwup, and that it will be hard to win with any of those screwups.
    QBs make some plays and dont make others. The players defending against them make plays and dont make some others.
    I do not understand how Tom Brady can throw an Int, fumble, get sacked, but Matt Cassel 'screws up' if he does.

    I am going to bring this to a new thread, but unless Cassel does significantly worse than the average NFL QB, he isn't 'screwing up". If he produces just like the average NFL QB, I would say he did his job, and we shoud be winning a lot of games.
     
  7. Yorkshire Patriot

    Yorkshire Patriot On the Roster

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    Looking forward to watching Cassel this week, and how BB gameplans with him as starter. I think we all hope that we can get into the playoffs somehow, and that Cassel improves game by game.
     
  8. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Amen... and to the OP..this sjows how novice one is and how one is NOT paying attention to what is going on...
     
  9. skri65

    skri65 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    AndyJohnson,

    The basic point of the thread is that people should not expect anything too high for Matt, and from the looks of this board, people expect him to be above average. (Or, more accurately, peoples STANDARD of average is distorted because of Brady)

    I am merely pointing out that people should EXPECT significantly more "screw-ups" than Brady (and I'm not saying its his fault, I clearly point out that this is to be expected of any new QB).

    Frankly, I can see him losing a string of games and performing poorly and everyone on this board screaming for his head. I don't think you can deny that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  10. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    His success will depend greatly on the pass protection. Cassel is very accurate in the middle of the field but he will need time for his receivers to separate. Apart from Rhodes, the middle of the Jets D doesn't cover well. If Cassel has time to work the middle of the field, the Pats should be able to move the ball well.

    The Jets do defend well outside and Cassel will need to pick his spots carefully. I was actually pretty surprised with his throws outside the hashmarks last week since his accuracy there was awful in the preseason.

    If Cassel is going to go deep, I would expect it to be off of play-action and with max protect. That would leave only 2 receivers running routes but you don't want Cassel taking a long time making multiple reads anyway.

    While the point of the OP is well taken, I would think the Colts and Steelers are going to be the most challenging for Cassel. If the OL can step up and have a solid game, I can see Cassel having a pretty efficient game on Sunday.
     
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he plays poorly and we lose 'a string of games' people should be calling for his head.
    EVERYTHING is set up for him to play the best he is capable of.
    Aside from the QB, our other 52 are the best in the NFL.
    Cassel will be oprating behind an OL that was RENOWNED last year for giving Brady loads and loads of time to throw, and he has arguably the best receiving corps in the NFL.

    But, you come off as if you either make a play or 'screw up'. I just disagree. You are either good enough to make the play or you aren't, and how good that is depends on how good the guy trying to stop you is.
    Cassel is not going to 'screw up'. That implies he is stupid or incompetant.
    He is going to be asked to make plays that are dififuclt given his skill level, and the players on the other team are going to make plays against him.
    Whatever the result it wont be whether or not he'screws up' it will be whether or not he is good enough compared to the opponent to execute the plays called for him.
     
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Though players improve with experience, I don't follow the theory that "any QB takes three years". Neither of us have stats to prove or disprove your theory, but I do have stats of some current NFL quarterbacks.

    Ben Roethlisberger - without three years to learn the system, and like Cassel, thrust in to a starting role after an injury, went 13-0 while completing a career-high 66.4% of his passes his rookie year, throwing for 17 TD and 11 INT.

    Drew Brees - after learning the system for a year, Brees completed 60.8% of his passes and threw for 3284 yards in his first season as a starter.

    Derek Anderson - saw no action his first year and started three games in 2006. Did not get the starters reps in off-season or TC but came on to throw 29 TD - 19 INT and 3787 yards, going 10-5 in his starts last year.

    Tom Brady - one of the examples used as 'starting his career screwing up': completed 63.9% of his passes, with 18 TD against 12 INT.

    Jay Cutler - just to show I'm not cherry picking big name QB's. Cutler took over for Plummer and threw 9 TD vs 5 INT in five starts, averaging 200 ypg and completing 59.1% of his passes. Last year, in his first full season he completed 63.6% for 3497 yards with 20 TD vs 14 INT despite the diabetes problem.

    Matt Schaub - again, to show I'm not cherry picking stats: after three years on the bench Schaub completed 66.4% of his passes, though his TD/INT (9/9) and yardage (2241) weren't that great.


    Point is we don't know how Cassel will do. I'm not predicting a rookie year that will rival Dan Marino's, but I don't believe we should assume he's going to screw up because he's a rookie. Looks to me like there's a lot more of a correlation to how good the rest of the team is around the QB, than there is to being a rookie QB equates to doom - and Cassel does have the benefit of being surrounded by a good time (like Roethlisberger did.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't get your premise. Cassel could screw up, but the guy has been in this system for three years. Brady didn't really screw up all that much his first years as a starter (he completed 63.9% of his passes and only threw for 12 INTs). Roethlisberger didn't screw up much his rookie year. Drew Brees didn't screw up a lot his first year as a starter with the Chargers. Brett Favre didn't make a lot of mistakes his first year as a starter either.

    I don't think Cassel is anywhere near as good as those guys, but my point is that there are a lot of QBs who don't make mistakes as first-time starters. If the Pats give him a gameplan where he can "play within himself", I don't think he will make many mistakes at all. The Pats may not score a lot of points like the last few years, but they won't have a lot of turnovers either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I watched the NFL Replay of Jesters @ Fish - 12 rec to TE by Penny, his WR are "limited", but he made do nicely with that squishy Jest's middle. Watson at practice today could be very big news...I expect Cassel's first play to be play action and a toss to either Welker or Thomas in the middle.
     
  15. JAYHAWKS34

    JAYHAWKS34 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Erroneous, erroneous on all accounts, Cassel is going to go 29/29 6TD’s – 389 yards
     
  16. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I agree with the OP to a certain extent, in that we shouldn't expect the world from Cassel. I expect him to have his ups and downs too.

    However, at the same time, Cassel is the QB of this team for an inherently limited amount of time. Come September 2009, this is Brady's team. There are 15-19 games to be played between now and then, and this team does not owe it to Matt Cassel that he start them all. If he has more ups than downs, and is costing this team games, than he should and will be replaced.

    I think everyone agrees that this is a Super Bowl caliber roster on paper, so there should be less patience in allowing Cassel to "take his bumps" while learning the game. It's not like he'll "get 'em next year", next year this is Tom's team. If Cassel underperforms, allowing him to learn on the job would be as foolhardy as the Bears wasting the best years of their current roster with Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton at QB. It probably cost them a Super Bowl. I hope if Cassel plays as poorly, BB will explore other options.

    I hope that comes across more coherent than I think it did.
     
  17. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm not expecting Cassel to be Brady, and there will be mistakes. I am, however, not expecting the 5-11 record that some Doom & Gloomers, and opposing fans are predicting. The rest of the team is still here and they are still very good; 10-6 or maybe 11-5 is far more likely than the 7-9 or 6-10 record that so many outside of New England are predicting.
     
  18. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I haven't read a week's worth of comments indicating Cassel will be this year's NFL MVP. After a number of people talked themselves off the ledge when Brady was hurt, the comments initially seemed to point to a fear he was not good enough and should immediately be replaced by a veteran QB. If anything, the comments now seem to say a complete team effort is required to go anywhere significant this season. That would seem to indicate Cassel needs not to hurt the team and perform adequately (great (more success than failure), adequate (balance of success and failure), poor (see Rex Grossman)).

    Cassel is inexperienced and will make mistakes. It would be foolish to say otherwise given his lack of experience against first string defenses from other teams. This season has to be about a team effort. As far as championship predictions, I say get a little more information before you say it's improbable or impossible. Last time I checked, it's Week 2 and we have no idea what Cassel will do with preparation. That's why I am really looking forward to the next game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  19. O.Z.O.

    O.Z.O. Practice Squad Player

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    Sure, we should expect some mistakes.

    But, how many times do you see young and/or inexperienced quarterbacks stepping onto the field with defending conference champions? In most cases, you see these guys behind inexperienced lines on young or rebuilding teams. Cassel is in an unusual position, he's got a line comprised of Pro-Bowl talent in front of him. If you were to relate it to driving, he's been given the keys to a Porche, whereas most guys that step in like this are driving a Yugo.

    Cassel has a tremendously talented team around him, enough talent that him performing at no more then a league average level should equate to 10-12 wins.

    I've seen too many posts like the OP in this thread, and I don't get it. Does the rest of the team suck now, just because Brady is out? I don't see it that way.
     
  20. O.Z.O.

    O.Z.O. Practice Squad Player

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    didn't Houston give up a 1st round pick to get him from Atlanta? Might not have been a 1st, but I think it was at least a 2nd...and this is for as guy who held a clipboard for 2 years.
     
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