Cassel vs. the Vaunted Vet Backup

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Hi-larry-us! You have to love the anti-Cassel crowd. Don Quixote rides again. :yeeha:

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Iron Helmet,

I didn't post stats. I didn't fail to see "both sides". I highlighted what I felt was a silly statement by Reiss. You initially misinterpreted what I said, and as a result, attributed to me a defeatist attitude. In return, you got pancaked.

Actually, you posted a quote from Reiss that failed to deliver your intended goal, which was to somehow slight Reiss, and instead confused several readers of this thread. Instead, people took your post, as most reasonable people would, as more of a indicator of the difficulty of finding a legit backup.

However, you are too blind to see the failure of your post to have your intended effect, and continue to make excuses. Which leads me to believe you are a pompus ass, who doesn't know how to communicate. Lets hope whatever you do for a living, you don't have to speak or write.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Lets be realistic. What has Cassel done that ANY other crap QB can't do? The throws he makes are essentially the "easy stuff": Screens, slants, dump offs. The knock on him is that he is incapable of (or just sucks at) doing the stuff that guys get paid money to do, like create time in the pocket, make down field reads, deliver the ball in traffic, interprete coverages QUICKLY and make good on field decisions.

By the way, I judge the Pats on the upper 25% of what the other teams are doing, not the bottom 75%. So lets compare him to the top backups: Garcia, Ferrotte, Carr, Collins, etc. I would take ANY ONE OF THEM over him. The ONLY THING he has going right now is knowledge of the system. PERIOD. And this is BB's fault. We should have been carrying a veteran the last 4 years.

PS He also is at the helm of a group of guys that were one of the most prolific offenses in history. Keep that in mind when comparing him to Brady of 2001. Welker/Moss vs. Troy Brown/Patten, Watson vs. Wiggins...

Garcia is a starting NFL QB so you can remove him from your list. Ferrotte is terrible, you clearly have not actually watched a Vikings game. He couldn't beat out Jackson.

Carr is a sack machine and most thought it was because of his line in Houston, but that was dispelled last year when he replaced Delhomme. Bottom line Carr sucks, he couldn't out play Matt Moore and Grandpa Vinny.

Collins is handing the ball off or dumping it to Scaife. I don't see Scaife as a deep threat, do you? Collins hasn't been asked to do much, they are fourth in the league in rushing and the defense is ranked first in scoring -allowing a whopping 11 points a game.

You need to watch more than highlight reels.

 

[JSn]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Better record than Favre, Penny, P. Manning and currently AFC Offensive Player of the week.

Yep. We're screwed.

We have to think of the fact too that teams like the Broncos and Jets have fans tearing their hair out because of their supposed star QB's. We have John Doe in for QB who started a game since... Monday (but don't tell the mediots, it takes away their favourite tag) and we're having a better record and our QB is GETTING BETTER.

Quel groupe de merde pour des cerveaux!

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

One key aspect to this argument that is being overlooked id the fact that we had vet guys before and the reason we didn't need to look for one this year is because Cassel beat out the Vet back-up we had last year and this year being a 3 year vet himself it would have been redundant to bring in another one especially when they drafted a QB in the 3rd.


This argument is predicated on the fact that the team should have been better prepared to replace a star QB in week one. It's kind of foolish. Lets just say that BB and Pioli are to blame for this. Who cares...if their worst mistake so far was not being prepared enough with a back up QB than that is fine by me. But the reality is they were prepared, they had a 3 year vet and they drafted a kid in the 3rd round.

This situation is not the norm. Yes if they had known Brady was going to be lost for the season maybe there would have been a better choice. But IMO a back ups job is to be ready at any moment and to be able to go .500 with the team for a few weeks so the ship doesn't completely sink in the absence of the starter. I think BB felt that either one of the guys he had could do that.

One last hypothetical. Lets just say this injury happened after the bye might it be possible that O'Connell leaped froged Cassell by than. Cassel was the first choice because O'Connell obviously wasn't ready being a rookie in week 2 and Cassel is the guy now and there is no time for the 2 to compete now. Point being a week one season ending injury is not really something you can back up. You deal with it and roll with the punches. As I previously stated a 3 year vet and a 3rd round rookie seems like more than enough for a back up position. More than enough until you face the realization that you need to replace an all world QB for an entire season.

Now inserting Hindsight we are 4-2 with Cassel, he doesn't make a lot of costly mistakes, and he seems to be improving as the season goes on. Right now I don't see how anyone can say BB and Pioli screwed this up even if you can point to a few QBs that could have been an option instead. Someone else out there may have been better but at this point you can't say Cassel has been a failure because he wins.

This is basically exactly what I believe, I just like throwing stuff out thre, discussing it and bringing up possibilities because......that is the point of a message board.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Garcia is a starting NFL QB so you can remove him from your list. Ferrotte is terrible, you clearly have not actually watched a Vikings game. He couldn't beat out Jackson.

Carr is a sack machine and most thought it was because of his line in Houston, but that was dispelled last year when he replaced Delhomme. Bottom line Carr sucks, he couldn't out play Matt Moore and Grandpa Vinny.

Collins is handing the ball off or dumping it to Scaife. I don't see Scaife as a deep threat, do you? Collins hasn't been asked to do much, they are fourth in the league in rushing and the defense is ranked first in scoring -allowing a whopping 11 points a game.

You need to watch more than highlight reels.

To be fair...what other receivers exist on the Titans? Collins would be phenominal on this roster
The Panthers were missing weapons off and on last year
Cassel is not a sack machine?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Do you believe that David Carr could be as successful or more succesfull in the Patriots offense as Matt Cassel?

No!!!

TEN......

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

To be fair...what other receivers exist on the Titans? Collins would be phenominal on this roster

That running game should open up a lot of room in the passing game. He should be completing more than 56% of his passes and have more than 12 completions to a wide receiver, if he was..you know..really good and all. I think Collins would be an INT machine in our offense.

The Panthers were missing weapons off and on last year

And yet Matt Moore and Grandpa Vinny outplayed him.

Cassel is not a sack machine?

I didn't say that - that is an obvious knock on him. Yet, a person cited David Carr as an example of someone that is a better option than him. Seems kind of like an ignorant thing to do, IMO.

 

[CheerforTom]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

According to the NFL (JSn pointed this out), Cassel IS the Vaunted Vet Backup

The fourth-year veteran connected with wide receiver Wes Welker on a six-yard toss for his career-best third touchdown of the night.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I didn't say that, but that is obviously a knock on him. Yet a person cited David Carr as an example of someone that is a better option than him. Seems kind of like an ignorant thing to do, IMO.

I certainly would entertain the posibility that Carr could be better than Cassel here in NE.

 

[JSn]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I certainly would entertain the posibility that Carr could be better than Cassel here in NE.

Well entertain away. Don't forget to wash your hands when you're done.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I certainly would entertain the posibility that Carr could be better than Cassel here in NE.

I completely disagree. He is done, every knock on Cassell is ten fold with Carr and I believe Matt is better mentally than Carr.

Obviously, we agree to disagree.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I don't think any "Cassel bashers" are going to complain about being 4-2 (you can't and call yourself a Pat's fan). I don't think this is the point with all the bashing. For me (at least), I am more upset with the fact that BB put us in a position where our backup to Tommy B was a kid with no real game experience since high school, that everyone (including 95% of you here, and Mike Reiss as well) thought would be cut from this team a couple months ago, who has not (and continues not to) show us ANYTHING. We are winning despite him, not because of him.

Bad planning, bad decision making, bad fore sight by someone I consider a genius. If Herm Edwards was our coach, I would be more forgiving, but he ain't.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Garcia is a starting NFL QB so you can remove him from your list. Ferrotte is terrible, you clearly have not actually watched a Vikings game. He couldn't beat out Jackson.

Carr is a sack machine and most thought it was because of his line in Houston, but that was dispelled last year when he replaced Delhomme. Bottom line Carr sucks, he couldn't out play Matt Moore and Grandpa Vinny.

Collins is handing the ball off or dumping it to Scaife. I don't see Scaife as a deep threat, do you? Collins hasn't been asked to do much, they are fourth in the league in rushing and the defense is ranked first in scoring -allowing a whopping 11 points a game.

You need to watch more than highlight reels.

Garcia WAS A BACKUP. See Philly last year. See Brian Griese starting for Tampa until getting hurt.

Ferrotte is stretching the field. He is keeping his team in games. I'd rather lose in a shootout than roll over and die (see SD, Miami)

Carr completely outplayed Matt in the preseason. Tho a sack machine, he has more experience than Matt and has stretched the field with his arm. See Andre Johnson.

See Collins WR corps. Collins can stretch the field with his arm. He actually makes downfield reads (imagine that!)

 

[JSn]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

We are winning despite him, not because of him.

*sigh*

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I think the overall point I am trying to make is that the Patriots were a Superbowl team with Brady and I believe they could be a Superbowl team without Brady....

Is it so wrong to think the Patriots could have a shot at the Superbowl, even with Brady out?

Is it wrong to believe that even a caretaker QB with real NFL experience could do more to help bring this team to the superbowl?

Is it wrong to think that Cassel hasn't shown enough to make me believe tht he is capable of being that caretaker QB?

Sure, the defense has been inconsistent, the OL has not been able to pass block or run block consistently...but really a QB can do a lot to hide those kinds of problems. Maybe Cassel and the team mature together throughout the season and all my fears were for naught....but when/if the Patriots are in the playoffs and they are down by 7 with 5 minutes left to go in the game and Cassel has the ball....will we feel like we have a shot at eveing up the game or will we just dispair because we know Cassel cannot be that guy.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Hold on. I was responding to this:



I asked for names, and got in response 2 guys who were already on other teams' rosters in the Spring, and 2 guys who are still sitting home on their couches unwanted by 32 teams. And now I'm hearing that the "better options available at the beginning of training camp" would actually have had to be signed to long-term contracts 2-3 years ago!

You simply cannot expect to sign a Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington et al to a long-term contract to back up a HOF QB. That kind of vet is looking for a position with starting potential. And Cassel legitimately beat out the kind of vets you CAN get for a team like the Patriots.

For the most realistic comparision case, check out the Colts. Their backup was a late 6th-round pick one year before Cassel was drafted, and has never started an NFL game. And their 3d QB? Oops, they don't have one...while the Pats spent a premium draft pick on a QB prospect this year, a bit of long-term thinking for which they were raked over the coals for "wasting a pick."

There's no way anyone can fail to grasp this logic, right? Right? Right?

 

[apple strudel]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

David Carr? He absolutely completely f*cking sucks.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

ha, I seem to recall why I left this board back in 2001

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

ha, I seem to recall why I left this board back in 2001

Were you demanding Bledsoe get his job back or demanding they find a QB other than the young backup with no arm in 2001?