Cassel vs. the Vaunted Vet Backup

[Seacoast Fan]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I didn't realize that Patriots fans made excuses...the team certainly doesn't. Why don't you go and tell the Patriots that "its okay, Brady went down, you don't have to do well" and see how they react.

Okay, now I will stop kidding and really go slow, for a moron such as yourself....

I wasn't making an excuse. I wans't even commenting upon the Ptriots, or any other team. Instead...and I will pause here for you to catch up...I was busting on Reiss...or anyone else, for that matter...who needs to conduct some sort of statistical analysis in order to conclude that it is bad news when a starting QB gets hurt and is replaced by the backup.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Did you fall asleep during math class? 8 out of 12 have losing records. That means 4 don't. 33%. I judge BB and this organization against that 33%. Not the bottom 66%. With your attitude, we'd be the Lions.

..and with your humor and intelligence, or, more precisely, lack thereof, you could be in the Lions front office.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

..and with your humor and intelligence, or, more precisely, lack thereof, you could be in the Lions front office.

Now THAT is an extremely vicious and hilarious response!

 

[Lampshade]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

isn't that what I said?

Isn't that what I said?

 

[patchick]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I think Tim Rattay would have been a solid choice. Tim Hasselbeck, Trent Green was available I think. I don't know if any of these guys would have beat out Cassel, but to bring them in to compete at the start of training camp would have been a good move IMO.

Yikes, that's slim pickings. Green signed with the Rams back at the beginning of free agency in March; Rattay and Hasselback are (I think) both still out of football, meaning that no team thinks they're among the 96 best QBs around. If anything, that list reassures me that the Pats did the right thing sticking with Cassel.

Again, I define a high-quality backup QB as anybody in the top 48 or so in the league. I think it would be mighty hard to list 48 current QBs with whom the Patriots would be better off. Ergo, they Pats had good, solid QB depth. (Note that does NOT necessarily mean that Cassel is a "good NFL quarterback." It may be, for instance, that there are only two dozen actual "good NFL quartbacks" in existence. But if so, it's absurd to expect the Patriots to have two of them on their roster.)

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

..and with your humor and intelligence, or, more precisely, lack thereof, you could be in the Lions front office.

Lets see...you post stats from an article and you fail to see both sides of the statistical representation, yet you insult my intelligence? You must be wicked smart.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Yikes, that's slim pickings. Green signed with the Rams back at the beginning of free agency in March; Rattay and Hasselback are (I think) both still out of football, meaning that no team thinks they're among the 96 best QBs around. If anything, that list reassures me that the Pats did the right thing sticking with Cassel.

Again, I define a high-quality backup QB as anybody in the top 48 or so in the league. I think it would be mighty hard to list 48 current QBs with whom the Patriots would be better off. Ergo, they Pats had good, solid QB depth. (Note that does NOT necessarily mean that Cassel is a "good NFL quarterback." It may be, for instance, that there are only two dozen actual "good NFL quartbacks" in existence. But if so, it's absurd to expect the Patriots to have two of them on their roster.)

The flaw in your argument is that it assumes we only had this season to find a backup. BB should have been looking and securing one over the last several years. I think the list would grow exponentially once you start going further back in years (or since we decided to forgo having a veteran back there).

PS the Giants signed David Carr to back up Eli during the offseason.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Iron Helmet,

I didn't post stats. I didn't fail to see "both sides". I highlighted what I felt was a silly statement by Reiss. You initially misinterpreted what I said, and as a result, attributed to me a defeatist attitude. In return, you got pancaked.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

The flaw in your argument is that it assumes we only had this season to find a backup. BB should have been looking and securing one over the last several years. I think the list would grow exponentially once you start going further back in years (or since we decided to forgo having a veteran back there).

PS the Giants signed David Carr to back up Eli during the offseason.

Wow.
And I am sure that during the Super Bowl years, and last year's undefeated season, you were telling everyone who would listen, that BB should be securing a backup QB......
LMAO

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

The flaw in your argument is that it assumes we only had this season to find a backup. BB should have been looking and securing one over the last several years. I think the list would grow exponentially once you start going further back in years (or since we decided to forgo having a veteran back there).

PS the Giants signed David Carr to back up Eli during the offseason.

The fact that you point to David Carr should be telling you just how silly your argument is.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Yikes, that's slim pickings. Green signed with the Rams back at the beginning of free agency in March; Rattay and Hasselback are (I think) both still out of football, meaning that no team thinks they're among the 96 best QBs around. If anything, that list reassures me that the Pats did the right thing sticking with Cassel.

Again, I define a high-quality backup QB as anybody in the top 48 or so in the league. I think it would be mighty hard to list 48 current QBs with whom the Patriots would be better off. Ergo, they Pats had good, solid QB depth. (Note that does NOT necessarily mean that Cassel is a "good NFL quarterback." It may be, for instance, that there are only two dozen actual "good NFL quartbacks" in existence. But if so, it's absurd to expect the Patriots to have two of them on their roster.)

Let me ask you, assuming you have seen Tim Rattay play for the 49ers....do you think he would have been competitive for the backup QB position here with the Patriots?

I certainly believe that if he knew the system, he would do a better job than Cassel. Obviously that is n a vacuum, ignoring things like how he would fit into the locker room etc...but from just a skills and experience stand point, it certainly appears to me, that he would be better.

There are a lot of JaG NFL QBs floating around, I've seen my fair share of them torch the Patriots in fact.....

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

The fact that you point to David Carr should be telling you just how silly your argument is.

Do you believe that David Carr could be as successful or more succesfull in the Patriots offense as Matt Cassel?

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Do you believe that David Carr could be as successful or more succesfull in the Patriots offense as Matt Cassel?

I think it would take him 2-3 years to grasp it.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Let me ask you, assuming you have seen Tim Rattay play for the 49ers....do you think he would have been competitive for the backup QB position here with the Patriots?

I certainly believe that if he knew the system, he would do a better job than Cassel. Obviously that is n a vacuum, ignoring things like how he would fit into the locker room etc...but from just a skills and experience stand point, it certainly appears to me, that he would be better.

There are a lot of JaG NFL QBs floating around, I've seen my fair share of them torch the Patriots in fact.....

Just admit you are a Cassel-hater and be done with it already. You even thought he'd be cut coming out of training camp.

Rattay is done. Maybe Tim Couch is available though.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Do you believe that David Carr could be as successful or more succesfull in the Patriots offense as Matt Cassel?

David Carr is shell shocked, as anyone who watched him in Carolina could tell you. 6 games, 4 starts.... a 1-3 record with a 58.3 passer rating.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

David Carr is shell shocked, as anyone who watched him in Carolina could tell you. 6 games, 4 starts.... a 1-3 record with a 58.3 passer rating.

And, when someone says that Carr or anyone else would be more "successful" than Cassel, it also depends on how you define "success". Could another backup have better numbers? Perhaps. (and, I doubt they would be significantly better.) But, if you define success as won-loss record, its hard to believe that any other backup QB could have stepped into the sytem, AFTER the season had already started, and done better than 4-2.

 

[JSn]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Bottom line: If we finish with a losing record, these ******s will feel vindicated. If we finish with just a winning record, they'll say Cassel failed as we didn't make the playoffs. If we make the playoffs, but not the SB, they'll believe another back-up could have got us the whole way, same as if we make the SB and lose. If we win the SB, they'll say "Matt was solid, but he's no Brady."

They believe that every time we win, it's because the other team beat themselves. I'm willing to believe that in all of those cases, if we stayed off the field, they would win every time, so that argument makes no sense.

Bottom line, you can not win (or even make reasonable) this argument, with these ******s.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Just admit you are a Cassel-hater and be done with it already. You even thought he'd be cut coming out of training camp.

Rattay is done. Maybe Tim Couch is available though.

I did believe he would be cut out of training camp. I don't hate him though, he is a New England Patriot.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

One key aspect to this argument that is being overlooked id the fact that we had vet guys before and the reason we didn't need to look for one this year is because Cassel beat out the Vet back-up we had last year and this year being a 3 year vet himself it would have been redundant to bring in another one especially when they drafted a QB in the 3rd.


This argument is predicated on the fact that the team should have been better prepared to replace a star QB in week one. It's kind of foolish. Lets just say that BB and Pioli are to blame for this. Who cares...if their worst mistake so far was not being prepared enough with a back up QB than that is fine by me. But the reality is they were prepared, they had a 3 year vet and they drafted a kid in the 3rd round.

This situation is not the norm. Yes if they had known Brady was going to be lost for the season maybe there would have been a better choice. But IMO a back ups job is to be ready at any moment and to be able to go .500 with the team for a few weeks so the ship doesn't completely sink in the absence of the starter. I think BB felt that either one of the guys he had could do that.

One last hypothetical. Lets just say this injury happened after the bye might it be possible that O'Connell leaped froged Cassell by than. Cassel was the first choice because O'Connell obviously wasn't ready being a rookie in week 2 and Cassel is the guy now and there is no time for the 2 to compete now. Point being a week one season ending injury is not really something you can back up. You deal with it and roll with the punches. As I previously stated a 3 year vet and a 3rd round rookie seems like more than enough for a back up position. More than enough until you face the realization that you need to replace an all world QB for an entire season.

Now inserting Hindsight we are 4-2 with Cassel, he doesn't make a lot of costly mistakes, and he seems to be improving as the season goes on. Right now I don't see how anyone can say BB and Pioli screwed this up even if you can point to a few QBs that could have been an option instead. Someone else out there may have been better but at this point you can't say Cassel has been a failure because he wins.

 

[patchick]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

The flaw in your argument is that it assumes we only had this season to find a backup. BB should have been looking and securing one over the last several years.

Hold on. I was responding to this:

I think that there were better options available at the beginning of training camp.

I asked for names, and got in response 2 guys who were already on other teams' rosters in the Spring, and 2 guys who are still sitting home on their couches unwanted by 32 teams. And now I'm hearing that the "better options available at the beginning of training camp" would actually have had to be signed to long-term contracts 2-3 years ago!

You simply cannot expect to sign a Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington et al to a long-term contract to back up a HOF QB. That kind of vet is looking for a position with starting potential. And Cassel legitimately beat out the kind of vets you CAN get for a team like the Patriots.

For the most realistic comparision case, check out the Colts. Their backup was a late 6th-round pick one year before Cassel was drafted, and has never started an NFL game. And their 3d QB? Oops, they don't have one...while the Pats spent a premium draft pick on a QB prospect this year, a bit of long-term thinking for which they were raked over the coals for "wasting a pick."