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Carucci finally backtracks on Peppers

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RobAllan, May 4, 2009.

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  1. RobAllan

    RobAllan Rookie

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    He calls the situation a "head scratcher" and has no idea what's going on. About time he came out and said that, frankly.

    -Rob-
  2. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    Is he actually backtracking or just confused why peppers hasn't signed his tender if he actually wants to be traded.
  3. RobAllan

    RobAllan Rookie

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    The way I read his comments made me think the answer is both. Perhaps it could be read a different way?

    -Rob-
  4. supafly

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    Yes, I agree. Finally he decides to come clean, it took him long enough.

    I still think Peppers has 2 options:

    1. To make his 17 guaranteed, then leave Carolina next yr, entering the uncapped free agent yr--where he'll get another multi yr deal, and make somewhere between 25-30 more in guaranteed money. Grand total in guaranteed loot is in the Stafford range (40-45 million) for only 2 yrs. This decreases his injury chances, and puts a ton of guaranteed money in his pocket over only 2 yrs.

    2. He signs a big multi-yr deal this yr, but it'd have to be a lot of guaranteed money, as he's already looking at 17 million in guaranteed loot for only 1 season. Keep in mind if comparing him to the LB position, that J.Harrison is going to make approx. the same in guaranteed money over 6 seasons in what Peppers will make this yr in only 1.

    If I had to choose, I'd say the odds are probably that he'll end up going choice #1, but even if he'd choose #2, it couldn't be with us. We'd still have to offer a lot of guaranteed money, even if he took a 'friendly' deal--which he'd have to be an idiot for doing, given the other 2 obvious choices.

    I think he expected more interest in his services, and was somewhat surprised when teams didn't fall over rushing to get to him. At any rate, this is just my opinion, so I'm not saying it's any better than anyone else, or that I am right. I would still hope that maybe something could happen making him a Pat, but I just can't realistically see how.
  5. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    Admitting that you have no idea what's going on is backtracking, in this case.
  6. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    That's the same conclusion I draw...almost like he's getting frustrated that his prediction didn't come true yet.
  7. JoeSixPat

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    I tend to agree (with BB among others) that if Peppers really wanted to be traded he'd have signed or would sign the tender (it would have made the most sense before the draft)

    Seeing as I don't think there's team that could take his entire $17 million cap hit as is without some MAJOR restructuring of a great many others on the roster, Peppers would still control his destiny by agreeing or refusing to a long term, lower cap deal with another team.

    Seems to me that Peppers is more than happy to take the $17 million this year and go into free agency next year. Sure there's a risk of injury. There's also insurance he can take out to cover his future earnings.

    And he'll get more guaranteed in 2 years with the franchise amount and a long term contract next year than he would with just a long term contract this year.

    When it was a given that we'd franchise Cassel I feared seeing this same thing happening here that we see with Carolina now - luckilly a few things broke differently here.

    Bottom line, by Peppers actions I don't think he wants to be traded this year.
  8. Rob0729

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    Again, I would be more befuddled if he actually signed his tender. Whether he was ever a real possibilty for the Patriots or not, the dumbest thing he could do is sign the franchise tender. He loses a lot of control on where he gets traded and what his compensantion would be. That is why franchise players in the past never signed their franchise tender until a long term contract and trade compensation was already agreed to.

    The only franchised player who signed his franchise tender that I know of who signed his tender before a deal was in place was Matt Cassel and other than a bogus report a deal was done, there looks to be little interest on the Chiefs' side to get a long term deal done like Cassel wants. In fact, I believe that Pioli probably feels it is safer to go into the season with no long term deal because even if he is not a one year wonder, Cassel's value should be less next year when he isn't throwing to Moss and Welker and he is on a very young team learning a new system.

    Peppers and his agent would be stupid to sign the franchise tender no matter what Belichick said. That said, Peppers' agent might have been more proactive in trying to get a deal done and facilitating a trade. Not saying there isn't a strong possibility that Peppers' agent, who is a college professor, hasn't hindered the process. But he could be on a team he didn't want to be on right now with no new deal in place (as of April 22nd, there were 7 teams that had enough cap room to absorb Peppers' franchise tender and still have enough money to sign their rookies).

    There is a reason why franchised players don't sign their franchise tag until both the contract and trade is in place. Even Belichick had no problem dealing with those terms when he traded away Tebucky Jones without him signing his tender.
  9. PATSYLICIOUS

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  10. Rob0729

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    Not true on many levels. I explained why in my last post why signing the tender was a stupid idea no matter if the Pats were interested or not. Again, the agent for the player can negotiate a trade between teams or the player can give his team and the team trading for him permission to talk directly.

    As for restructing, there were 8 teams as of April 22nd who had over $20 million in cap space.

    Atlanta Falcons: $23.67 million.
    Chicago Bears: $20.96 million.
    Cleveland Browns: $20.27 million.
    Green Bay Packers: $27.89 million.
    Kansas City Chiefs: $32.3 million.
    Philadelphia Eagles: $37.44 million.
    San Francisco 49ers: $26.11 million.
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $35.54 million.

    The following teams could have fit the tender number under the cap with only some minor adjustments or at least without MAJOR resturcturing:

    Buffalo Bills: $11.82 million.
    Cincinnati Bengals: $16.26 million.
    Denver Broncos: $16.3 million.
    Jacksonville Jaguars: $16.94 million.
    Miami Dolphins: $13.19 million.
    Minnesota Vikings: $17.32 million.
    New York Jets: $12.62 million.
    Tennessee Titans: $13.05 million.

    I will give you that without knowing the terms of the contracts of a lot of these teams, I don't know if their flexibility was hindered, but none of these teams would have to free up more than $5 million to fit Peppers' tender offer under their cap. Granted they would have had to free up more room for rookies and bonuses acrued over the season as well as insurance money.

    I do think Peppers absolutely wants to be traded this year. He wouldn't say publically otherwise if he didn't. Now I think he may be the victim of an inexperienced agent, a false sense of the market for him, and limiting his options right off the bat. I bet there has been far more action behind the scenes than we know, but Peppers has said that he wants to play OLB and only for one of five teams that he has chosen (granted he has backed off the five teams thing in recent weeks). That seriously limits his possibilities. I think that was more of the case than him not signing his tender or him not wanting to get traded.
  11. Rob0729

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    BTW, I still think the chances are still decent that Peppers gets traded this year. I don't think the chances of him being a Patriot is all that great anymore, but I think the Panthers are hoping for a team to get desperate around the start of training camp like the Redskins were with Jason Taylor last year.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

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    The Arrowhead Pride forum had an article on this, they noted how (relating to KC reports) there was a certain timeline to Lombardi's reports:
    - Lombardi would report something.
    - KC would deny it.
    - In time the deal would occur and be announced.

    Lombardi did not announce that a deal had been signed with Cassel, he stated an agreement in general had been reached. He expects KC and Cassel's agent will take a few more weeks to work out the details and it will be announced in June.
  13. VJCPatriot

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    There are some other possibilities that I can think of:

    A) Peppers wants to play 1 year for 17M but he wants to wait until after mandatory camp is over before signing.

    B) Peppers is waiting out the Panthers because he wants them to agree not to franchise him again if he signes the tender this year. This way he gets his guaranteed money and will be a free and clear free agent in the uncapped 2010 year.

    C) Peppers still wants to be traded but the choices look to be unappetizing to him because the teams he really wants to goto don't have the cap space for him.
  14. klinefan

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    The smartest thing he could do is sign his tender and guarantee himself 17M. Otherwise they might pull it. "But then they don't get anything for him!". Other than a 3rd comp...but they get rid of a 17M albatross and a disgruntled player.

    Realistically, no one will trade for a guy and pay him 17M for one year if he doesn't want to even be there. They'd get a lackluster effort at a very high price.
  15. JoeSixPat

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    Can't argue with that - especially the cap numbers. I had no idea those teams had cut so many players to get so far below the cap.

    If that's the case then signing the tender puts him in the same category as Cassel - potentially traded to a team for a year whether he agrees to a long term contract or not.

    The only thing still accurate about my post is the notion that if Peppers truly didn't want to play for the Panthers he WOULD sign the tender.... but again he'd have little say in where he went.
  16. KDPPatsfan85

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    I think that Carolina will release the Tag and Peppers will be a Free Agent and he will sign with the Patriots. Thats the only way i see him coming now!!
  17. TriplecHamp

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    I highly doubt they do that because they could just lower the price on him and receive a second.
  18. MoLewisrocks

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    Carolina gains nothing by rescinding the tag on Peppers. They are several million under the cap after the Delhomme extension. There is no FA on the market who can replace Peppers in their defense going forward in 2009. There is not another draft for 12 months. There is no cap in 2010 so if they end the season $20M under the cap that money is essentially lost. They were a playoff team with Peppers in 2008. Their window is closing for Fox and Hurney. They know Peppers well and believe he will not hold out or present a problem playing for them in 2009. His own agent said much the same months ago. What he may or may not prefer and what is available for him in 2009 are not necessarily one in the same. His agent has had 3 months to probe his market and has yet to identify a team willing to both trade for and sign him - at least one he's interested in playing for.
  19. spacecrime

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    ?????

    He has total control over what his compensation would be.

    Once he signs the tender, it will be $17 mil unless he decides otherwise.

    He could be traded to where ever, no control over that, but total control of money.

    Until he signs the tender, he could actually end up making nothing. He gets into a serious auto accident or gets arrested for DUI or gun charge or something and that tender will be pulled so fast ...
  20. Rob0729

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    And Peppers could die the day he signs the tender before they cut him the check and he would get nothing then too. I think the odds of Peppers getting nothing is significantly low. In fact if his end game is more to get out of Carolina, him getting the tender offer rescinded would he ideal for him.

    He loses control of money he would get in a scenario where multiple teams are interested in him. Right now he can force the Panthers to take the deal from the team who is going to give him the best contract if he chooses since the Panthers can't trade him without his consent. But with a signed tender if two teams want him and a team like say the Eagles who have well over $20 million under the cap are willing to give up a higher draft pick and are willing to roll the dice on getting Peppers and then working out a deal with Peppers like the Cassel situation and other team is willing to give Haynesworth money but a lower draft pick, Peppers has no way to block a trade to the Eagles. A team like the Eagles might feel they are a Peppers away from a Super Bowl and with plenty of cap room not worried about carrying a $17 million cap hit for one year and even lose Peppers next offseason.

    People laughed at me when I said that a team might trade for Cassel without a new deal in place. Cassel's cap hit isn't significantly lower than Peppers (less than $3 million). If the Chiefs are willing to roll the dice on a QB that might be a one year wonder at $14.65 million, why is is it crazy to believe that a team might do the same with a proven pass rusher like Peppers at $16.68 million? It isn't 5 years ago where teams are hurting for cap space and carrying a cap hit like that is all that ridiculous. If Carolina is willing to take a second for him, it wouldn't be all that stupid for a team who is a pass rusher away from being a legitimate Super Bowl contender to rent Peppers for a year if they have the cap room. They can always franchise and trade him away next year. The odds of the situation like this is not the highest, but it is a realistic scenario.
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
  21. MoLewisrocks

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    And why people can't see Carolina as one of those teams is what baffles me... They "carried" him last year in the final year of a salary backloaded deal that counted $13M+ against their cap and won their division. If they didn't have him tagged they'd be $23M under right now and one of the several teams who could afford to take Peppers on under a tag...

    Much like Asante in 2007 the only leverage Peppers has is to refuse to report once the season starts. I believe it's been a while since a player did that for obvious reasons...of which Peppers has more on the line than any player in NFL history. They don't need him to report to camp let alone any of the other OTA's. They know how he fits in their defense, he's it's centerpiece, and he know hows to play within it.

    Carolina has publicly contended from day one that they tagged him not to trade him but to play him. If they could they would extend him as they have been trying to for a couple of seasons. He isn't going anywhere unless he truly forces their hand by holding out into pre season and convincing them he has no intention of reporting for week 1. Because only at that point does trading him have more value than retaining him for the 2009 season.

    At any time prior to the draft Peppers could have ramped up his chances of being traded even absent signing his tender by walking into Hurney's office and stomping is feet and making it clear he will NEVER play another snap in Carolina. Abraham did with NY. And he could have settled for the team of his choice for less than open market $$$ to facilitate a trade if it meant that much to him to control his destiny.

    That reporter who did the piece on him pre draft had it right where that was concerned. If Peppers truly wants out for altruistic reasons and finances really have little or nothing to do with it, he's going to have to prove it. Otherwise the Panthers will just wait for him to his senses like the essentially good child in a somewhat uncharacteristic pout they seem to believe he is.
  22. Rob0729

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    I conceed that the Panthers could carry him for the franchise tag. If I think a team would trade for Peppers and potentially let him play under the franchise tag number, of course I acknowledge the Panthers may keep him and let him play under the same cap number. I just think Carolina is looking to move on as much as Peppers no matter what they say publically. No matter how they really feel, they are going to say say publically that they want Peppers to stay.

    I don't think the Panthers will just give Peppers away so if no one is willing to make at least a decent offer like a second rounder, I doubt he will be traded. I just think as the season gets closer, there will be someone who will get desperate for a pass rusher and make aplay for Peppers. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
  23. slash83

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    Not sure how recent this chat was but check it out-


    Whats your thoughts on Julius Peppers, will he hold out? I don't see him being traded but if he were traded where do you see him going? What Peppers Agent next move?
    Carucci_small
    Vic Carucci, Senior Columnist, NFL.com
    I'm at a total loss on this one. I wouldn't rule anything, including a trade, out because it does seem clear that that is the only happy resolution from Peppers' perspective. But it's hard to rule it in, given that he won't sign his franchise tender and give the team a chance to work a deal if it would try to go that route, which still isn't a bad option for the Panthers. Holding out seems to make little sense for a guy whose worst-case scenario is being paid nearly $17 million to not go anywhere. As for teams that could trade for him, I'm still not ruling out that he could end up with the Patriots, the team he wants to play for. But the situation remains one of the bigger head-scratchers of the offseason.

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    this was also in there


    Any predictions on where Jason Taylor ends up? When will he decide by?
    Carucci_small
    Vic Carucci, Senior Columnist, NFL.com
    I'll go along with the conventional wisdom that has him ending up with the Patriots. He seems like a pretty good fit as an OLB in their 3-4 scheme and he certainly is intelligent enough to quickly grasp the complexities of the Pats' defense. As for when he will decide, knowing Taylor's aversion to team workouts in the offseason, my guess is that he'll wait as long as possible and probably do something that won't force him to report any sooner than training camp.
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  24. Patsman

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    That is just a ridiculous amount of money for any one player other than QB in this entire league. Is there one defensive player in this league worth 17mill guaranteed money?
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  26. slash83

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  27. JoeShmoe

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    Quite clearly its just brinksmanship between Carolina and Peppers

    He wants a decent trade and if CP wont give it to him then he just sits until week 10 and plays some and walks end of the year anyway, or they remove the tag when he would become a FA. That way CP dont pay the cap penalty

    I suspect they want a 1st and others are only offering 2nds. And yes we have 3 of them !

    Im still not ruling it out
  28. NE39

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    The idea of Peppers sitting out until week 10 and giving up $10M seems a fantasy. $10M is a lot of money, and he is not going to walk away from it. I can believe he may sit out into training camp if he really does have a stick up his butt, but the idea he will miss any games is far-fetched. The Panthers know that.
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