Carucci: BB talked to Weis about returning

[Tunescribe]

I just listened and your parens is a stretch. I took it as the sources (which he clearly said wasn't Charlie) said it came up in conversation which I understood to be [the subject of his potential availablility] but they were not sure how far it went beyond that or that there was ever any real opportunity there. I'm sure as they talk regularly it did come up, what else would they talk about at that juncture beyond his getting fired and what he was gonna do. But in no way did what Vic convey indicate they had any kind of specific conversation about his coming back...which is what you posted.

Vic Carrucci on WEEI

Mo, the only reason I'm belaboring this with you is that I'm the one who started the thread. True, Carucci had nothing to offer on the substance of talks between BB and Weis, but I view the fact that they discussed his working in New England again to be significant, and Vic confirmed that. Here are the exact words from the tape:

Glenn Ordway: “Did he have any conversation with Bill Belichick about possibly coming back here?”

Vic Carucci: “It’s my understanding, and I haven’t gotten this directly from Charlie but some people close to him, that yes, there was a conversation ... Specifically about a job with the Patriots, I don’t know how far that went. But my understanding was that has come up."

Again, I take this as confirmation -- at least, from Carucci -- that the possibility of Weis returning to New England was floated between he and BB. Had the Kansas City prospect not materialized I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that a return to the Patriots might've been in play. Or maybe BB really wanted him back and logistics/money couldn't be worked out. We'll probably never know.

 

[BrocktonBomber]

I would like to see Mike Martz as OC

 

[vyrago]

You mean like this guy?

Nice rug though.

 

[Jimke]

C'mon, don't you like the Belichick approach of hiring someone off the street as a coaching assistant and the make them OC after a year as WR coach and a year as QB coach?

Matt Patricia the linebackers coach is targeted as the next

defensive coordinator.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mo, the only reason I'm belaboring this with you is that I'm the one who started the thread. True, Carucci had nothing to offer on the substance of talks between BB and Weis, but I view the fact that they discussed his working in New England again to be significant, and Vic confirmed that. Here are the exact words from the tape:

Glenn Ordway: “Did he have any conversation with Bill Belichick about possibly coming back here?”

Vic Carucci: “It’s my understanding, and I haven’t gotten this directly from Charlie but some people close to him, that yes, there was a conversation ... Specifically about a job with the Patriots, I don’t know how far that went. But my understanding was that has come up."

Again, I take this as confirmation -- at least, from Carucci -- that the possibility of Weis returning to New England was floated between he and BB. Had the Kansas City prospect not materialized I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that a return to the Patriots might've been in play. Or maybe BB really wanted him back and logistics/money couldn't be worked out. We'll probably never know.

I think you're seeing what you want or had hoped to see. There was never really any possibility of Charlie returning here as OC. There were never talks...just A conversation. And in cases like that it is always best to spin it as mutual interest which in the long run led to another choice.

I'm sure if he needed a job Bill would always find one for him (including OC if he thought that was something Charlie was truly ready to ultimately settle for). Even as a pseudo consultant like Capers who needed a little image rehab between gigs. But Charlie left ND with $18M in salary to come. He's not working because he loves the game (although I'm sure he does) or needs to support his family. He's working because his ego is bruised and he wants to prove ND and all his critics were wrong.

He's not a well liked guy outside of the circle of the BB tree. He is seen as arrogant and there are temperement and health issues that give folks pause. Same reasons he never got that NFL HC offer on the heels of winning 3 rings although the likeable DC finally did... still exist. I'm sure his agent had conversations with several teams deemed to be in the market for a HC as well as OC before he decided to sign on with a team that could have easily hired him in December since they didn't have the position filled at the time. Charlie has a chip on his shoulder about the way he is perceived and KC gives him his best available shot at making his critics grimmace. He was reportedly interested in the Chicago vacancy that had potential to be somewhere the HC could be out by midseason 2010 or the current Buffalo HC vacancy and I don't doubt his agent had a conversation with Lerner if not Holmgren regarding the Cleveland situation where his second Brady now languishes. But obviously nothing else was materializing and KC wasn't going to wait forever because they're on to next season already.

I think he was a great OC here and if he wanted to be that again I'd be fine with that. I just don't think that was ever a possibility. I think his friend Bill probably knows that too. Charlie is more likely to get that shot at flipping his critics the bird by making his mark in KC than he ever would be by returning here to the situation where Brady and BB will always get more credit when things go well than the OC. And there is also the dynamic of pairing he (and potentially even RAC) and Haley under Pioli possibly even leading to him getting his shot there if the offense makes strides while the overall team lags behind...

I shudder to think what could happen (including to Matt) on the flip side though if he and Haley clash under pressure... Those are too fairly volitile personalities with substantial egos and the same offensive background...

 

[Tunescribe]

I think you're seeing what you want or had hoped to see. There was never really any possibility of Charlie returning here as OC. There were never talks...just A conversation. And in cases like that it is always best to spin it as mutual interest which in the long run led to another choice.

No, I'm just taking the radio transcript at face value. Ordway asked Carucci directly if BB and Weis discussed Charlie possibly returning to New England. He said they did according to his sources. That's all. I don't presume the discussion was a "negotiation," but for all you and I know, it could have been. With all due respect Mo, you're the one reading what you want into this, which is that one, the other, or both (BB/Weis) dismissed out of hand the prospect of Charlie returning to BB's staff in some capacity. What Carucci offered contradicts that.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Mo

I don't think you and tune are that far off. A conversation can go everywhere from

How's the job search going?

to

How are the lawyer's coming along on your contract?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I would like to see Mike Martz as OC

Never gonna happen. And not just because he has no background in this offense. He's lobbying for the Bears OC vacancy and his former Rams GM tore him a new one this week saying he'd ruin Cutler (LOL) and cost Lovie his job (LOL). He was a mess when he left the Rams in a mess and he's done nothing to improve his stock since. He blames that on a move to blackball him that he says is entirely based on his former employers badmouthing him. Maybe that's true or maybe he's got issues... He is in our experience with him nothing if not stubborn...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No, I'm just taking the radio transcript at face value. Ordway asked Carucci directly if BB and Weis discussed Charlie possibly returning to New England. He said they did according to his sources. That's all. I don't presume the discussion was a "negotiation," but for all you and I know, it could have been. With all due respect Mo, you're the one reading what you want into this, which is that one, the other, or both (BB/Weis) dismissed out of hand the prospect of Charlie returning to BB's staff in some capacity. What Carucci offered contradicts that.

No, it doesn't. Carrucci heard it came up in A conversation, nothing more. We don't know who initiated it or in what context. Getting that nebulous tidbit alone out to guys like Vic is all it takes to manufacture interest and interest equals leverage. I'm sure Vic told all his friends in Buffalo that Charlie and Bill had "talked"... as well as Charlie and Scott had been talking for weeks and Charlie was interested in talking to the Bears about their situation as well as Cleveland although he would also love to talk to Ralph about the Bills...

Now you can choose to believe that Charlie and Bill both wanted to reunite but for some reason, maybe a insatiable greed...or a cheap owner, busy schedules, Bill O'Brien deleting his bosses voicemails, nothing came of it... I choose not to delude myself that if Bill and Charlie had any genuine mutual interest in reuniting they wouldn't have worked the details out PDQ.

 

[JSn]

In other news, Carucci is now reporting that Bill has signed some of the dudes from Avatar to play Corner.

 

[Tunescribe]

Carrucci heard it came up in A conversation, nothing more. We don't know who initiated it or in what context.

Thanks for acknowledging "it" being Carucci's direct response to Ordway's direct question that yes, BB and Weis discussed (in whatever capacity, on whatever level of seriousness, and to whatever end) Charlie's possible return to New England. Naturally, one, the other, or both decided from that conversation, for reasons unknown to us, it was not to be.

 

[mtbykr]

I would like to see Mike Martz as OC

Yikes........