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Carter Craps On Kennedy

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Methinks the man from Plains might still be a little miffed that Teddy challenged him in the primaries in 1980 when Carter was seeking reelection.....
    Still it takes more cajones to challenge the guy when he's alive rather than waiting until he's dead and can't respond....Let's see who among the Kennedy family stands up to respond and defend their honor. I mean if there is anybody who worked tirelessly for health care reform and universal coverage, it was Ted Kennedy and John Dingell.....
  3. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Think that has been debunked as nothing has happened yet, if you check the archives in Conn. every year Blue Cross, United Health Care and other providers traditionally ask for about 20% every year.. right now they will use this excuse or any excuse to raise rates.

    But of course in this day and age of filtered news, no one checks the history.. the big insurers are rich and want to protect their profit margin...
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  5. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Incorrect. It is twice what they requested last year.

    MEDICAL INSURANCE RATE INCREASES REQUESTED AND APPROVED IN CONNECTICUT

    That's a big revelation that corporations try to maintain a profit margin. From where would you get your insurance if they all went under?
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Yeah...
    Must be Obama's lame attempt at reforming the cost of health insurance that caused this latest rise in premiums.

    Or you might just want to spend five seconds to research and see that it has been going on for a long time. Health insurers are making a lot of money and they do so by refusing coverage and limiting medicine and healthcare to their customers. They rely on chumps to scream "SOCIALISM!" and blame the so-called healthcare reform plan on rising costs of health insurance.

    Note the dates on the graph. Hard to blame Obama for that. Message to opponents of single-payer system : You are stooges for the insurance companies. That's about a 125% increase over nine years ending in 2008! Where was the OUTRAGE before Obama became president?

    Consumers have fewer options for using credit cards for medical expenses

    [​IMG]

    Families who relied on credit cards and loans to help pay medical costs are finding they can no longer depend on easy credit to pay for rising health care costs and medical debt as the credit market tightens.

    A financing source that many families used to help pay for health care costs and living expenses while battling illness is drying up, just like student and car loans. That means medical debt -- already the reason for more than half of all personal bankruptcies -- may force more families into financial distress in the coming months, health care and consumer advocates say. Or worse, even more people may skip or delay medical care because they can't afford to pay for it.

    "People are delaying seeing a doctor when they're sick, they're skipping recommended medical treatment or follow-up, they're not filling prescriptions," says Michelle Doty, director of survey research for the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit foundation that focuses on health care issues. "This is the worry: They're having access problems because of cost; they can't afford it."
  7. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Ok, tough guy, where are the savings from your solution?
  8. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Medicare and Medicaid destroyed affordable health care years ago, it's just catching up now. The shell game of healthcare's revenue cycle leads to incredible overhead. Insurers have business expenses just like everyone else and the mandated changeovers in information systems are a huge expense -- think at least 30 million plus for a healthcare system with just two acute care hospitals and the insurers have to be able to integrate.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, you got one thing right for sure, it's a lame attempt by Obama. Those of us who live here in Massachusetts, understand why.

    Until the actual cost of care is dealt with, the costs will only continue to rise. Worse, is that adding tens of millions of freeloaders onto the system, will only cause it to rise at a more rapid rate. Imagine all the new low lifes and freeloaders who will be asking for prescription meds from their docs, cuz they aren't happy with their lives. NICE!

    Insurance companies certainly blow, but they deal directly with margins. Theoretically you could argue that higher rates suit them, since a 10% margin persay, would mean a higher return, with higher premiums. The one flip side to that is the amount of customers you lose when you have continuously skyrocketing rates.

    If people want the gubmit to provide care, then why not have a "public option", but one with incredibly limited care. One that provided the absolute basics, with significant restrictions on the types of medications a PO recipeint could recieve, as well as the surgeries, or treatments, etc. In conjunction with this basic level of government provided, but limited coverage, anyone who has private medical insurance, would get a tax credit, or could write off their medical expenses when they file their income taxes. This way, the people who will ultimately be paying for the uncovered, would get some relief if they opted to provide themselves with their own. It would also provide an incentive for people to aquire their own private policy, since it would likely cover more than the PO option would. One of the only ways to control the skyrocketing cost of care, is to limit what people recieve. In the end, the more goodies people get, the larger to pooled costs are. Pooled costs that only a portion of country actually pays for.
  10. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Yeah, look at these obscene profit margins. Some of them are actually over 5%.

    Industry Browser - Healthcare - Health Care Plans Industry - Company List
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    There aren't any. A single payer system won't be cheaper. It will result in rationed care though. I'm not opposed to rationed care in a gubmit provided policy mind you. I would be opposed if such a system made it completely unaffordable for middle class families to afford private care. There's no way I'm going to be relegated, or forced into some slop, gubmit run care system, simply because some dead beat has to have coverage too. The idea of the socialist to appease the few, to the detrimant of the many. No thanks.
  12. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    A single payor system would be cheaper administratively but those costs would be far outweighed to the tax payer in the overall money needed to keep the system running. I support the government in establishing a single coding system which would bring huge savings to healthcare organizations but letting insurers negotiate the payment rates and development plans, across state lines, for targeted demographics e.g. catostrophic for the young, physical therapeutic oriented for laborers, fitness oriented for office workers, etc.

    EDIT: One of the biggest overhead costs for healthcare is the revenue cycle and the thousands of different billing processes employed by both providers and insurers to screw each other for an extra percentage point of reimbursement.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  13. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    So people are forgoing treatment that will save their lives because they want to avoid bankruptcy? That makes a lot of sense.

    Given a choice between chance of going bankrupt (American system) or greater likelihood of dying (single-payer systems), I prefer the former.

    Here is one place that you can read up on the differences.

    http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=psc_working_papers

    Of particular note is the table on page 35 that shows that the 5-year survival rate for cancers in the U.S. is 66.3% for men and 62.9% for women, which compares favorably to Europe with rates of 47.3% for men and 55.8% for women.

    Which system is denying people treatment, again?
  14. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    It's the same "logical fallacies" that all government healthcare advocates trumpet... similar to the one that got Romneycare passed with Republican votes in MA: "All the uninsured are using up the Emergency Rooms so you're just paying for them anyway". Turned out not to be true... the ones who suck up ER resources are those on Medicare/Medicaid who use it any time they get a sniffle and their reimbursement rates are below other insurers so that hospitals essentially take a loss on their visits.
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I never said I had a solution, did I? I was just pointing out that blaming Obama for the rise in premiums is a smokescreen the insurance companies are using fake outrage and people willing to spread it as the smokescreen. The last thing they want the People to know is that there is no difference between them and the "single payer' system when it comes to cost increases and limiting coverage.

    Once again, one has to wonder where the outrage was before 2009. The article I posted wis two years old, but it shows a trend that existed before Obama and continues today. Refusing to see the big picture over time is the problem this country has today. All truth is in context with "today" and whoever is in charge today should be blamed for everything that happened in the past. It's idiotic.

    The insurance companies limit care and in many cases, refuse coverage. The government (that's you and me) has to pick up the slack and always will, whether you like it or not. The ones who get hurt the worst are the ones who work, own a house and pay their bills but have nothing left for health insurance. When they get really sick, they go bankrupt, putting an even heavier burden on everyone else. As long as our society is one that will not let poor people die of preventable causes, we have to cover them somehow. You can say a single-payer system will cost more, but you don't know that. Costs come in many forms that aren't always entered into the equation. It's the way we do things here. Just like we all think a gallon of gasoline costs $2.75.

    Like I said, I don't have the solution. I just won't blame Obama for rising healthcare premiums.
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    PAGE #%?

    I'll have to leave that for tonight when I get home. I'm out for a long commute. Have at it, boys!
  17. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    The outrage has been around for a long time. Why did Clinton try to reform healthcare and fail?
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    The question is whether Obamacare is the solution. The early returns suggest "no". The premium increase this year is even greater, so I would say that does not qualify as an improvement. Pointing out that the problem has gotten worse is not equivalent to denying that it exists, which is what you were accusing me of.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Probably because he was too busy dodging bullets from the saintly boys on the right who got all hung up on a BJ in the Oval Office... in those days everyone was making mad cash, so no one cared.
  20. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Thirty years ago I took a health care class in college. The prof showed a chart correlating how costs rose when out of pocket costs declined. Essentially, when somebody else is paying, there are no cost constraints. He said, " watch out if this continues" Well, it continued and that's how we got where we are today. The latest in technology paid for by insurance but ...now premiums are through the roof. Solutions?? There isn't one that doesn't involve a lot of pain. Can't cut Medicare or the elderly scream ( and they vote) can't ration care or people scream....
    There's high tech, immediate access or universal coverage. Pick 2 of the 3 but you can't have all three in the health care system as C. Everett Koop once wrote..... There are tough choices ahead.

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