Cap Update

[mgteich]

As always the key is to negotiate with the team to avoid the need to frontload. Almost no players are "stolen" by signing off sheets and having the team not match. I suspect that Sanders could be had for a decent cap hit if the steelers are really ready to let him walk. As it is, if we made an offer, we would have to live with the frontloaded hit, unless the steelers matched (and then renegotiated with Sanders). We would have lost 5 days of use of the cap money.

Sanders seems a bit like a pipe dream at this point, at least without someone restructuring. An offer that the Steelers don't match will tie up too much cap space, won't it?

 

[supafly]

As always the key is to negotiate with the team to avoid the need to frontload. Almost no players are "stolen" by signing off sheets and having the team not match. I suspect that Sanders could be had for a decent cap hit if the steelers are really ready to let him walk. As it is, if we made an offer, we would have to live with the frontloaded hit, unless the steelers matched (and then renegotiated with Sanders). We would have lost 5 days of use of the cap money.

What do you mean specifically by "negotiate?" You mean in terms of a trade for a draft pick outright instead of an offer sheet? Why would that be in PIT's better interests when they already are guaranteed a 3rd if they should lose him? Is it because they would benefit from a 3rd + a 7th or so? I wouldn't find that to be worth it.

In the case of Welker it actually cost us more since he was tendered with a 2nd right? An additional 7th? The benefit was that we didn't have to tie up money for 5 days. Is that worth it in this instance?

Regarding the 2013 cap hit for Sanders on a frontloaded deal--what would you project or guess that to approximate? It wouldn't be any higher than about 2/3 of our space at the moment right? If that?

Wouldn't that still allow us to have 1/3 or so of our remaining cap space for that 5 day period (assuming the Steelers would even take the entire 5 days to match). I would think that we could get by on 4 million or so of cap room for the next 5 days, especially when we could have been at least 1/2 way there right now with no significant moves lately.

 

[Miguel]

Please note that as Jocelyn Robichaud pointed out in an email: "The current cap status is calculated with the top 51 earners. On the other hand, not all of these players will make the team. Thus, as the team shrinks its roster to 53 players, it will create cap room unless it keeps all of its top earners. For example, let's say that Daniel Fells ($1,250,000 in salary) does not make the team and is replaced by an undrafted rookie ($405,000 in salary). This would free over $800,000 in cap room for the Patriots. If Armond Armstead makes the team instead of Brandon Deaderick, that would create $225,000 in cap space. If a 7th round pick makes the 53-man roster instead of Ryan Wendell, that would create $400,000 in cap space. With just 3 those roster decisions the Patriots could create over $1.4 million in cap space when the rosters are cut down to 53 players.

 

[M_A]

Domenik Hixon and EJ Biggers would be solid additions along with SeaBass and a pass rusher.

I think we need 1 more corner, OL, a tall WR (atleast 6'2''), and a passrusher.

 

[Rob0729]

According to Bedard, the Pats currently have $15.3 million in cap space left.

Although he thinks the Pats need to budget $8-12 million for rookies, incentives, and possible extensions. I think that might be a bit high. I think the Pats would need to budget $6-8 million because I don't know if there is anyone significant for an extension. And they decided to extend Wilfork, it would lower his cap.

Patriots cap space update - Extra Points - Boston.com

 

[Lamanai]

According to Bedard, the Pats currently have $15.3 million in cap space left.

Although he thinks the Pats need to budget $8-12 million for rookies, incentives, and possible extensions. I think that might be a bit high. I think the Pats would need to budget $6-8 million because I don't know if there is anyone significant for an extension. And they decided to extend Wilfork, it would lower his cap.

Patriots cap space update - Extra Points - Boston.com

It's hard to say unless he specifies exactly whom and for how much the extensions are for...A lot of Free Agents next off-season. Might be a good idea to soften the blow by locking them up this year, if possible.

 

[Mack Herron]

According to Bedard, the Pats currently have $15.3 million in cap space left.

Although he thinks the Pats need to budget $8-12 million for rookies, incentives, and possible extensions. I think that might be a bit high. I think the Pats would need to budget $6-8 million because I don't know if there is anyone significant for an extension. And they decided to extend Wilfork, it would lower his cap.

Patriots cap space update - Extra Points - Boston.com

Not looking so good for re-signing Vollmer. I expect we will see something happen pretty soon with him.

 

[Rob0729]

Not looking so good for re-signing Vollmer. I expect we will see something happen pretty soon with him.

The Pats have more cap room than most of the teams who would be going after him. They may lose him, but it is more likely because a team will try to make him a LT and pay him accordingly.

 

[Mack Herron]

The Pats have more cap room than most of the teams who would be going after him. They may lose him, but it is more likely because a team will try to make him a LT and pay him accordingly.

Right, more a question of how Patriots prioritize remaining needs (DL, CB, WR, etc) against depth.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In the case of Welker it actually cost us more since he was tendered with a 2nd right? An additional 7th? The benefit was that we didn't have to tie up money for 5 days. Is that worth it in this instance?

While that was a benefit, the main reason for going the trade route, IIRC, was that Kraft didn't want to create bad blood with a division rival and risk further retaliation later down the road by using a poison pill-laden offer sheet.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I think what the Patriots would "buy" with an extra draft pick (say a 2014 7th rounder) is the ability not to tie up as much cap space this year.

Let's say the Patriots and Sanders agree in principle to a 4 year, $12 million deal. (I'm just making this up.) Sanders wants $6 million in year 1. The Patriots could sign him to an offer sheet that pays him a $2 million bonus, $4 million in salary in year 1, and then $2 million per year in each of the following 4 years. That gets Sanders his $6 million and it's pretty much impossible for the Steelers to match, because it requires a $4.5 million cap hit in 2013.

So, the Patriots call the Steelers and say: "Look, we're going to make this offer, and you're going to lose him and get a 3d. We are prepare to do it. How about instead, you trade him to us for a 3d and a 7th next year." If the Steelers aren't inclined to match, they take the deal, because it's a free 7th.

Now, the Patriots can structure the contract differently -- maybe they pay a $5 million bonus and $1 million first year salary, and so they only take a $2.25 million cap hit. So, the 7th buys them (1) certainty right away, (2) not having to lock up $4.5 million in cap hit for 5 valuable days during free agency, and (2) $2.25 million in cap space for the same economic outlay.

Again, I have no idea what Sanders' true value is and whether these numbers are realistic, but I'm using them as a hypothetical to try to explain how a trade instead of an outright offer sheet situation can be a win-win for both teams.

What do you mean specifically by "negotiate?" You mean in terms of a trade for a draft pick outright instead of an offer sheet? Why would that be in PIT's better interests when they already are guaranteed a 3rd if they should lose him? Is it because they would benefit from a 3rd + a 7th or so? I wouldn't find that to be worth it.

In the case of Welker it actually cost us more since he was tendered with a 2nd right? An additional 7th? The benefit was that we didn't have to tie up money for 5 days. Is that worth it in this instance?

Regarding the 2013 cap hit for Sanders on a frontloaded deal--what would you project or guess that to approximate? It wouldn't be any higher than about 2/3 of our space at the moment right? If that?

Wouldn't that still allow us to have 1/3 or so of our remaining cap space for that 5 day period (assuming the Steelers would even take the entire 5 days to match). I would think that we could get by on 4 million or so of cap room for the next 5 days, especially when we could have been at least 1/2 way there right now with no significant moves lately.

 

[eom]

this is pretty much in the realm of nitpicking , and it may just confuse things further, but 15m would be my current guesstimate --- so, yes.




this is how the popular peoples' party interprets the writings:
I could see arrington at 3m - 500k for replacing the 51st guy = 2.5m
that puts us at around 15m
wilson is an older guy, so I suspect the 3 yr deal is to hide cap in the form of a roster bonus(?), which leads me to believe the cap figure might only be 2-3 m (-500k for replacing 51st guy).
I thought I had read somewhere around here that we still have 2.5m coming from fanene, which cancels out wilson's figure, but maybe fanene is already cooked in.

bottomline - just wait and see what happens

psshh....I broke this story 6 pages ago

 

[chasa]

the jags do know they cant just sit on that 25 million right?

 

[mgteich]

The steelers can match, restructure one of their players, thank the patriots for doing the negotiations and then restucture to a deal moving $3M of the salary to bonus.

The steelers would have a cap hit under $3M, a deal that they couldn't negotiate on their own (or he wouldn't ahve been tendered in the first place.

I think what the Patriots would "buy" with an extra draft pick (say a 2014 7th rounder) is the ability not to tie up as much cap space this year.

Let's say the Patriots and Sanders agree in principle to a 4 year, $12 million deal. (I'm just making this up.) Sanders wants $6 million in year 1. The Patriots could sign him to an offer sheet that pays him a $2 million bonus, $4 million in salary in year 1, and then $2 million per year in each of the following 4 years. That gets Sanders his $6 million and it's pretty much impossible for the Steelers to match, because it requires a $4.5 million cap hit in 2013.

So, the Patriots call the Steelers and say: "Look, we're going to make this offer, and you're going to lose him and get a 3d. We are prepare to do it. How about instead, you trade him to us for a 3d and a 7th next year." If the Steelers aren't inclined to match, they take the deal, because it's a free 7th.

Now, the Patriots can structure the contract differently -- maybe they pay a $5 million bonus and $1 million first year salary, and so they only take a $2.25 million cap hit. So, the 7th buys them (1) certainty right away, (2) not having to lock up $4.5 million in cap hit for 5 valuable days during free agency, and (2) $2.25 million in cap space for the same economic outlay.

Again, I have no idea what Sanders' true value is and whether these numbers are realistic, but I'm using them as a hypothetical to try to explain how a trade instead of an outright offer sheet situation can be a win-win for both teams.

 

[ausbacker]

Bedard just tweeted that according to a league source the Patriots have $15,271,750.00 in remaining cap room (discounting the draft $) . If correct, that provides the team with a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Patsrock]

The steelers can match, restructure one of their players, thank the patriots for doing the negotiations and then restucture to a deal moving $3M of the salary to bonus.

The steelers would have a cap hit under $3M, a deal that they couldn't negotiate on their own (or he wouldn't ahve been tendered in the first place.

I am trying to find where I saw it but I don't think you can restructure a offer sheet if you match it. I think you must wait one year.

 

[JMC00]

Clearly Jeff Howe's cap source knows nothing about the top 51

Finally, a source familiar with the cap numbers has conservatively estimated the Pats would need to preserve $4-5 million for the rookie pool. If they keep their five picks, it could be less. If they trade down and accumulate more picks, it would hit the higher end of that spectrum. Of course, they won't really need that money until they start signing picks in the late spring and early summer.

The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald

With the top 51 the Pats 1st, 2nd and 3rd would effect the cap by only about $2 million dollars. The 2 7th rounders won't even make the top 51. And if they were to trade back for another 2nd and 3rd rounder wouldn't it actually be about the same or even a little less?

I really think these guys are still going by when rookies were getting insane deals.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Clearly Jeff Howe's cap source knows nothing about the top 51



With the top 51 the Pats 1st, 2nd and 3rd would effect the cap by only about $2 million dollars. The 2 7th rounders won't even make the top 51. And if they were to trade back for another 2nd and 3rd rounder wouldn't it actually be about the same or even a little less?

I really think these guys are still going by when rookies were getting insane deals.

I wouldn't write those 7th rounders off yet. I'd like to draft a kicker there and see if he can push/replace Gostkowski. I like the kid from FSU Dustin Hopkins. Money saved if he beats out Gostkowski would be about 900k. More than enough to sign your 3rd rounder. Or, your 3rd and 4th if you deal your 2nd for a 3rd and 4th because you sign E. Sanders

I'm hoping we keep Vollmer and sign Sanders and Abraham. Draft DL and WR.

 

[patman52]

I think what the Patriots would "buy" with an extra draft pick (say a 2014 7th rounder) is the ability not to tie up as much cap space this year.

Let's say the Patriots and Sanders agree in principle to a 4 year, $12 million deal. (I'm just making this up.) Sanders wants $6 million in year 1. The Patriots could sign him to an offer sheet that pays him a $2 million bonus, $4 million in salary in year 1, and then $2 million per year in each of the following 4 years. That gets Sanders his $6 million and it's pretty much impossible for the Steelers to match, because it requires a $4.5 million cap hit in 2013.

So, the Patriots call the Steelers and say: "Look, we're going to make this offer, and you're going to lose him and get a 3d. We are prepare to do it. How about instead, you trade him to us for a 3d and a 7th next year." If the Steelers aren't inclined to match, they take the deal, because it's a free 7th.

Now, the Patriots can structure the contract differently -- maybe they pay a $5 million bonus and $1 million first year salary, and so they only take a $2.25 million cap hit. So, the 7th buys them (1) certainty right away, (2) not having to lock up $4.5 million in cap hit for 5 valuable days during free agency, and (2) $2.25 million in cap space for the same economic outlay.

Again, I have no idea what Sanders' true value is and whether these numbers are realistic, but I'm using them as a hypothetical to try to explain how a trade instead of an outright offer sheet situation can be a win-win for both teams.

The nfl has "ruled" that you only need to match the overalls of a contract and not word for word. It can be argued that by making the 4mill in salary a SB and not salary, the player would still get 6 mill in his pocket the first year and will have an ancillary benefit from being "harder" to cut in future years.

 

[strngplyr]

I wouldn't write those 7th rounders off yet. I'd like to draft a kicker there and see if he can push/replace Gostkowski. I like the kid from FSU Dustin Hopkins. Money saved if he beats out Gostkowski would be about 900k. More than enough to sign your 3rd rounder. Or, your 3rd and 4th if you deal your 2nd for a 3rd and 4th because you sign E. Sanders

I'm hoping we keep Vollmer and sign Sanders and Abraham. Draft DL and WR.

He isn't saying they 7th rounders won't make the roster, he's saying they won't count against the top-51 in cap space.