Cap cuts?

[Box_O_Rocks]

You are right. It was Britt who was competiting for the spot, not O'Callaghan.

I will pray that the Pats improve the team. It is stupid not to and the right side of the o-line is an area of need to improve. Why wouldn't anyone want an improvement there? It is definitely a potential area where Belichick may look to improve in the later rounds.

As for no one outside the first round being able to replace Kazcur, you are joking right? You really think there will be not one OT tackle taken from the 32nd spot on who will be a better tackle than Kazcur. Let's not got overboard here. Even if Kazcur is an above average RT as you claim, that is a silly statement.

Assuming Beatty and Britton both go in round one, please show me the prospect in this draft who you think would be able to push Kaczur down the roster.

 

[JSn]

Assuming Beatty and Britton both go in round one, please show me the prospect in this draft who you think would be able to push Kaczur down the roster.

I get the sense he thinks the hot-dog guy could do the job...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I get the sense he thinks the hot-dog guy could do the job...

Then he needs to link to the hot dog guy's profile and point out which strengths make him better then Nick.

 

[JSn]

Then he needs to link to the hot dog guy's profile and point out which strengths make him better then Nick.

Oddly...

Todd Weiner

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Oddly...

Todd Weiner

In the draft you hoser! :nooo:

 

[Rob0729]

Assuming Beatty and Britton both go in round one, please show me the prospect in this draft who you think would be able to push Kaczur down the roster.

Exactly when did Kazcur become Orlando Pace in his prime?

I'm sorry, but I am not a draftnick, so I don't even know all the picks at that position. But I have watched enough drafts to know that there are plenty of rookie OT who have been drafted outside the first round and even on the second day that become immediate solid starters or even near Pro Bowl caliber players. Marcus McNeill was the 18th pick of the second round was an immediate Pro Bowl caliber LT and the best tackle of that draft right off the bat. I guess I could try to go back and track every tackle who was drafted as a rookie, but I won't.

It is a silly argument to make that no tackle outside of the top 2 would be good enough to replace Kazcur this year. It defies logic and common sense.

Hey, I may be underrating Kazcur, but you are clearly overrating him with comments like that. I can guarantee that there will be at least one tackle taken outside the first round and it could be someone in the seventh round for all I know that will immediately be better than Kazcur. It happens almost every year at almost every position that a player most don't expects to be good will be an immediate impact player. I would bet there will be more than one OT coming out of this draft who are drafted outside the first round who will be better than Kazcur.

 

[Rob0729]

I get the sense he thinks the hot-dog guy could do the job...

Not the hot dog guy. That would be stupid. The equipment manager, yes. The hot dog guy, no.

 

[Deus Irae]

Exactly when did Kazcur become Orlando Pace in his prime?

I'm sorry, but I am not a draftnick, but I have watched enough drafts to know that there are plenty of rookie OT who have been drafted outside the first round and even on the second day that become immediate solid starters or even near Pro Bowl caliber players. Marcus McNeill was the 18th pick of the second round was an immediate Pro Bowl caliber LT and the best tackle of that draft right off the bat. I guess I could try to go back and track every tackle who was drafted as a rookie, but I won't.

It is a silly argument to make that no tackle outside of the top 2 would be good enough to replace Kazcur this year. It defies logic and common sense.

Hey, I may be underrating Kazcur, but you are clearly overrating him with comments like that. I can guarantee that there will be at least one tackle taken outside the first round and it could be someone in the seventh round for all I know that will immediately be better than Kazcur. It happens almost every year at almost every position that a player most don't expects to be good will be an immediate impact player. I would bet there will be more than one OT coming out of this draft who are drafted outside the first round who will be better than Kazcur.

Go back to 2000 and give us the name from each season that was immediately better than Kazcur is now.

 

[Rob0729]

Go back to 2000 and give us the name from each season that was immediately better than Kazcur is now.

No thanks. I don't have three hours to go look and check which guys had good rookie seasons. I don't follow each player enough to know which good players were good right off the bat and which took time to develop. I bet if I posted a bunch of players, you wouldn't know enough about most of their rookie seasons to prove me wrong anyway.

Maybe if I have three or four hours this weekend. We aren't talking about skills players who have stats to prove a point. Seriously how many o-linemen from other teams do you study? I listed one outside the first round in McNeil. I can list Matt Light too. I remember Jonas Jennings in the third round making an immediate impact since he played for the Bills. Shane Olivea was drafted in the seventh round and was an opening day starter and was an impact guy pretty much from the start. I think Chad Clifton made an immediate impact, but I can't remember for sure. I will look for others. Well, that is about four or five of the eight years.

Seriously, how many fans outside the AFC East even know who Kazcur was before he was busted for Oxy? And you want me to remember how every rookie OT did his rookie season. There were plenty of good OTs taken in later rounds, but I don't know when they broke out.

 

[Deus Irae]

No thanks. I don't have three hours to go look and check which guys had good rookie seasons. I don't follow each player enough to know which good players were good right off the bat and which took time to develop. I bet if I posted a bunch of players, you wouldn't know enough about most of their rookie seasons to prove me wrong anyway.

Maybe if I have three or four hours this weekend. We aren't talking about skills players who have stats to prove a point. Seriously how many o-linemen from other teams do you study? I listed one outside the first round in McNeil. I can list Matt Light too. I remember Jonas Jennings in the third round making an immediate impact since he played for the Bills. I think Chad Clifton made an immediate impact, but I can't remember for sure. I will look for others.

Seriously, how many fans outside the AFC East even know who Kazcur was before he was busted for Oxy? And you want me to remember how every rookie OT did his rookie season. There were plenty of good OTs taken in later rounds, but I don't know when they broke out.

You called his argument silly and made a statement regarding players outside of the first round. Back up your words. Here's a pretty good place to start:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

[BPF]

Kaczur is a hard nosed, tough and consistent player. I remember ESPN doing a re-draft of the 2005 draft and Kaczur being graded as a 1st Rd talent. Why the Kaczur hate? He's solid and cheap at $1.285 mil, a bargain for a player with his talent level.

 

[Rob0729]

You called his argument silly and made a statement regarding players outside of the first round. Back up your words. Here's a pretty good place to start:

NFL Draft History: Full Draft - by Position

I think five years of the eight in ten minutes was a pretty much a great start to backing up my point. And those were names that jumped out at me that I could quickly look up to confirm.

Give me time and I will back this up pretty easily. I didn't think it was easy to get those names so quickly. But then again, with o-linemen it a judgement call a lot of the time on who is better.

I will back it up this weekend when I have time to reasearch rookie years of players. But it is 2 AM and I am about half way there. So I am calling it quits.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's just look at last season, for a start. Here are the tackles who got significant playing time:

Jamey Richard, Colts
Anthony Collins, Bengals
Mike Pollack, Colts

Now, which of them was better last year than Kazcur? Remember, Brady's coming back from a bad knee injury, so we don't want to screw around with pass protection.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Lots of teams grab starting tackles outside of the first round, I don't think that's news to anyone. I don't think RT is an immediate need or anything, though: Kaczur is serviceable. If anyone worries me on the OL, it's Light (good most of the time, but he gets really manhandled by some of the elite pass rushers) and Neal (injured too much).

If we ended up with a pick at the top of the first for Cassel, I'd hope that the Pats would take one of the elite LT prospects for this year, and maybe that would bump Light over to RT, but I doubt that replacing Kaczur straight-up is a priority.

 

[Patjew]

No Faulking way that Faulk gets cut. That will not happen. I will bet anyone here's life on it.

Then again, they did cut Troy in 2006.

 

[BradyFTW!]

One cap-related cut that wouldn't surprise me would be Jarvis Green, although I'd think that he'd have trade value with so many teams switching to 3-4.

 

[Rob0729]

Lots of teams grab starting tackles outside of the first round, I don't think that's news to anyone. I don't think RT is an immediate need or anything, though: Kaczur is serviceable. If anyone worries me on the OL, it's Light (good most of the time, but he gets really manhandled by some of the elite pass rushers) and Neal (injured too much).

If we ended up with a pick at the top of the first for Cassel, I'd hope that the Pats would take one of the elite LT prospects for this year, and maybe that would bump Light over to RT, but I doubt that replacing Kaczur straight-up is a priority.

I agree with replacing Kazcur is not a priority. I said he was a possible cut, but I already said that Green was a more likely cut and probably Bruschi (who would be asked to retire if let go) as more likely. I got side tracked into this tangent based on one line of saying Kazcur is a possible cut and we high jacked the thread since I think the likelihood of him getting cut is low, but I think it is a possibility.

As for LTs, elite LT don't grow on trees and until the last few years, they have been a rarity since the Orlando Pace/Walter Jones draft. I am always very weary of taking an OT this high. Other than QB, I think OT has had the most first round draft busts/disapointments than any other position. I could be wrong there, but there seems to be a lot.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Exactly when did Kazcur become Orlando Pace in his prime?

Please, your hyperbole is already over the top, but since there seems to be some confusion: this draft class has as many as 6 OT projected into the first round, two of whom appear to be eventual upgrades for Light and Kaczur. The other four have their strong points and may, with hard work and dedication, turn out better than Nick.

It is a silly argument to make that no tackle outside of the top 2 would be good enough to replace Kazcur this year. It defies logic and common sense.

I look forward to your historical evaluation, I remind you that whomever you choose to offer as a better choice needs to also be evaluated as a "swing" tackle, a RT-only player - like O'Callaghan so far - isn't even in the running as an upgrade.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Other than QB, I think OT has had the most first round draft busts/disapointments than any other position. I could be wrong there, but there seems to be a lot.

Unfortunately, you are quite wrong here. Historically OT in the first round, and especially as a Top 5 pick, is the safest selection. WR is actually the biggest bust rate from what I've heard and read.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree with replacing Kazcur is not a priority. I said he was a possible cut, but I already said that Green was a more likely cut and probably Bruschi (who would be asked to retire if let go) as more likely. I got side tracked into this tangent based on one line of saying Kazcur is a possible cut and we high jacked the thread since I think the likelihood of him getting cut is low, but I think it is a possibility.

As for LTs, elite LT don't grow on trees and until the last few years, they have been a rarity since the Orlando Pace/Walter Jones draft. I am always very weary of taking an OT this high. Other than QB, I think OT has had the most first round draft busts/disapointments than any other position. I could be wrong there, but there seems to be a lot.

I'd agree that drafting LTs at the top of the draft was pretty hit-or-miss prior to Jake Long, Ryan Clady, and Joe Thomas (D'Brick, Gallery), but I wouldn't say that it's any worse than any other position. By all accounts this draft has some great talent at the top of the stack in Eugene Monroe and Jason Smith. If the Patriots somehow were to end up drafting there, where would they have a greater need? Maybe if Aaron Curry was available at LB. It's sort of a moot point anyways, though, since I really don't see the Pats trading up that high.