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Cap Cost To Keep

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by flutie2phelan, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Tom Brady ... 4,000,000
    Rosevelt Colvin ... 3,650,000
    Rodney Harrison ... 2,100,000
    Mike Vrabel ... 2,000,000
    Kevin Faulk ... 1,900,000
    Dan Koppen ... 1,573,000
    Ted Bruschi ... 1,350,000
    Deion Branch ... 1,045,000
    Matt Light ... 1,000,000
    Reche Caldwell ... 880,000
    Josh Miller ... 810,000
    Asante Samuel ... 756,600
    Tebucky Jones ... 735,000
    Chad Scott ... 710,000
    Larry Izzo ... 710,000
    Atrell Hawkins ... 710,000
    Eric Warfield ... 710,000
    Monty Beisel ... 700,000
    Johnathan Sullivan ... 689,083
    Ty Warren ... 685,000
    Corey Dillon ... 640,000
    Stephen Neal ... 600,000
    Russ Hochstein ... 600,000
    Richard Seymour ... 591,000
    Jarvis Green ... 585,000
    Daniel Graham ... 585,000
    Brandon Gorin ... 585,000
    Patrick Pass ... 585,000
    Lonie Paxton ... 585,000
    Mel Mitchell ... 550,000
    Troy Brown ... 535,000
    Tully Banta-Cain ... 500,000
    Eugene Wilson ... 500,000
    Dan Klecko ... 500,000
    Ben Watson ... 460,000
    Vince Wilfork ... 440,000
    Heath Evans ... 425,000
    Don Davis ... 425,000
    Marquise Hill ... 425,000
    John Stone ... 425,000
    Hank Poteat ... 425,000
    Ross Tucker ... 425,000
    Martin Gramatica ... 425,000
    Randall Gay ... 425,000
    Barry Gardner ... 425,000
    Gene Mruczkowski ... 425,000
    Billy Yates ... 425,000
    Logan Mankins ... 370,000
    Nick Kaczur ... 350,000
    Ellis Hobbs, III ... 350,000
    James Sanders ... 350,000

    Above is a table showing the relative salary cap costs of the 51 highest-paid players at this date.
    Miguel's irreplaceable pages are the source of the data. Subtract his 8th column from his 6th column, and this is what you get.

    *** continued below for space constraints ***
     
  2. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    No draftees are shown. (Only Andrews has signed, as yet.)
    This is not any player’s payroll cash cost ... or their cap hit. It is the difference between what it costs to keep him ... compared to cutting him.
    Also, the – unknown - cost of replacing a cut player is not factored. That is why this shows RELATIVE cap costs.

    Of what use is such a table of salary cap costs to keep players?

    Since ours is a front office that seeks and finds VALUE ... this is the kind of thing that they will bring to bear in deciding whether a player “pulls his budget weightâ€. If Piolichick decides they don’t, either the player would be compelled to negotiate his contract downward ... or face release.

    What can we glean from the array?
    And, yes, i recognize that the team appears to have spare salary cap space! (That does not turn value-seekers into spendthrifts.)

    • Colvin is costly. Is he worth almost twice as much as Vrabel?

    • The coaches evidently think quite highly of Kevin ... because they pay him very well.

    • Dan Koppen ... a fellow who may not be back from injury in time to start the season, and rumored to be eager to try green pastures elsewhere after this year ... lugs a pretty big carrying cost for circumstances such as those.

    • Reche and Tebucky have to outdistance their competitors at the position ... by as much as they outdistance them on the payroll.

    • It’ll be amazing if Johnathon Sullivan can pull his weight, on the relative value scale.

    • Now we know why BB said so emphatically, “NO WAY we’re trading Daniel Graham. This year, he is a steal.

    • Don Davis comes considerably cheaper than Larry Izzo – if it comes to that.

    Do any other value-oriented considerations jump out at you?
     
  3. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless I've completely misread things, there is another factor to think about.

    Say you cut one of these guys and save $500,000. Another player who currently has a lower salary will join the highest-paid 51. Since that player will probably be making about $400,000, your net cap saving will only be $100,000.

    It's something to bear in mind when juggling your numbers.
     
  4. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    That's why i said this:
    Also, the – unknown - cost of replacing a cut player is not factored. That is why this shows RELATIVE cap costs.
     
  5. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good thread, but this question needs to be re-worded. We're not paying him twice as much (or even AS MUCH?) as Vrabel. We just would save twice as much by cutting him. All this really means is that Colvin's money is less guaranteed with signing bonuses than Vrabel's. For a great player like Colvin, the correct answer is pay both!
     
  6. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re Colvin - who cares about the dubious concept of 'worth' at this juncture?
    We're way under the cap and we need productive LBs.
     
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Also known as their salaries. Salaries for players with similar skill sets and positions will vary from player to player based on the type of deal they signed and where they are at within that deal compared to where others are in theirs (the lower salaried early years right after pocketing their signing bonus, or the increasing salary well post signing bonus years). There is little point in looking at them except in context.

    Vrabel may appear to be a better value. But remember he is two years older than Rosie and signed his most recent extension well ahead of FA. And at the end of the day their deals aren't that different. Vrabel's included a $5M signing bonus on a 5 year deal, Colvin the younger FA got $6M on a 6 year deal. Vrabel's easily totals in the $20M range once his pre signing roster bonus and escalators which are probably reasonable are factored in. That would put him in the $4M per range which is average for a very good OLB. Rosie's deal is for $26M or just over $4M per.

    BTW you seem to have included roster bonuses in some cases (like Vrabel) but missed Jarvis Green's whopping $2.5M which vaults him up to third between Rosie and Rodney on your list.
     
  8. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    I think the title of this thread is highly misleading.

    The Data that you are actually showing is:
    How much cap room would the Pats potentially clear by cutting this player in 2006.

    This does not accurately reflect either the total cap figure of the player, signing bonus vs salary, or future cap hits you'd take in 2007 and beyond by cutting that player. To see that info I'd go directly to Miguel's page itself.

    Showing a very small sample set of numbers with a misleading title is the worst use of statistics. You can make it sound like you want but without proper context the value is questionable.

    For example you state that Colvin is costly and question if he is worth twice as much as Vrabel. This is not really true if you look at all the numbers.

    Colvin's Cap figure 5.48M
    Vrabel's Cap figure 3.54M + 500k roster bonus = 4.04 M

    Ok so this season Vrabel makes only about 75% of what Colvin does, but that's a far cry from HALF as much.

    The statistics you pose only count how much the Pats would save by cutting a guy and not replacing him at all. And they also don't account for the bump up in the top 51 as mentioned by another person.

    In short, these stats are fairly useless when the Pats are about 16.5M under the cap according to Miguel.

    Furthermore when you consider how much it would cost to acquire a FA LB replacement of the caliber of Colvin in today's inflated market the number becomes even more meaningless.

    Alright then so why don't we cut all the players that would save us 2M or more in salary cap room. See how competitive a team we can field then. :p

    Surely that Brady guy is overrated, his number sticks out like a sore thumb! We would "save" 4M!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  9. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2005

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