Can we talk WR for a bit?

[Avenger]

I think you would be putting a lot of faith into two rookie WR's to have a major impact. Slater is a pure STer, so you really have 4 WR's, two of which are rookies, one who is a jack of all trades and a guy who most people were disappointed with and some want cut before his roster bonus. I don't think you could even be sure that Edelman + the two rookies would match Welker's production, so I think it would be a net loss.

In terms of salary, I've come to terms with the fact that we will probably lose two of the big three free agents (Welker, Talib and Vollmer). I think Vollmer is the easiest to replace because of our success in developing O-Lineman over recent years. So I would be okay if he walked (or more ideally was tagged and traded). With the depth of free agent CB's this year I think we can get similar production to Talib with a lower cost, so I wouldn't be too upset losing him either. To me Welker is the most difficult to replace and would be the biggest loss. WR in this system is much more difficult to pick up than CB or RT, so I think we need to keep Welker to keep the offense on track.

I would much prefer a WR corps. of Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick and Slater. That would likely give you 3 outside WR's, two slot WR's and a special teamer. It would take the pressure of the rookies to be big contributors from day 1 and give them time to develop, while also adding that extra dimension this offense is missing.

Lloyd isn't getting cut, people suggesting that are idiots. Edelman, the rookies, Demps, Woodhead, Vereen and Ballard will all take up slack. You don't have to replace Welker's production with one or even two players.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Lloyd isn't getting cut, people suggesting that are idiots. Edelman, the rookies, Demps, Woodhead, Vereen and Ballard will all take up slack. You don't have to replace Welker's production with one or even two players.

I would love for those guys to step up regardless of whether or not Welker is back because I think we need a much more balanced passing attack. The problem with increasing their production without Welker is it's not only used to fill the void left by him, but it will also take away from the effectiveness of Gronk and Hernandez. None of those guys are matchup problems, none demand double coverage and none dictate defensive schemes. Having 3 guys that demand double coverage creates huge mismatches in the passing game, and we have seen what happens when one of them is out. I think you could make an argument that Lloyd's production last season was purely because of the attention given to the other 3. Without that commanding presence in the slot, teams can focus much more on Gronk and Hernandez and that puts much more pressure onto the other guys. I actually think Lloyd's production would decrease without Welker instead of increase, and overall I think the offense would be much worse without him.

There can only be so many skill position players on the field at the same time, so trying to make up the production loss without Welker with a group I believe would be inefficient. I think we already have the perfect core with Welker, Gronk and Hernandez, now what we need is greater depth and versatility with the rest of the group. A physical outside target, a deep threat, a blocking TE and overall depth. My ideal scenario would be drafting a playmaking deep threat WR in the 2nd round (Hunter, Hopkins, Wheaton, Patton, Woods), a big, physical outside WR in the 3rd (Da'Rick Rogers) and Michael Williams (blocking TE) in the 4th or 5th. That would leave us with

WR
Welker- Slot
Edelman- Slot, STer
Lloyd- Outside possession
Hunter- Outside playmaker/deep threat
Rogers- Outside physical
Slater- STer

TE
Gronk- Balanced
Hernandez- Move TE
Ballard- Balanced
Williams- Blocking

I think Edelman's versatility allows us to carry 5 genuine WR's and 4 TE's on the roster. I think this type of roster makeup would not only make the offense much more effective, it also creates adequate cover in case of injury.

 

[Sciz]

Was watching some tape tonight, and I'm really surprised that Chris Harper isn't getting more love. Yeah, he's 6'1", 230, and runs a 4.45, but the guy can play football too. He really snatches the ball, and the Boldin comparisons actually have a lot of merit. He also had to deal with getting constantly screwed over by Klein's accuracy, which noticeably upset him a few times in what I watched.

I know that OTG and mayo are among his fans on here, but I think I'm the first person on here to put him in the late-second discussion. Probably not ideal value there in a deep WR class, but I think he can be a really good player.

 

[Off The Grid]

Was watching some tape tonight, and I'm really surprised that Chris Harper isn't getting more love. Yeah, he's 6'1", 230, and runs a 4.45, but the guy can play football too. He really snatches the ball, and the Boldin comparisons actually have a lot of merit. He also had to deal with getting constantly screwed over by Klein's accuracy, which noticeably upset him a few times in what I watched.

I know that OTG and mayo are among his fans on here, but I think I'm the first person on here to put him in the late-second discussion. Probably not ideal value there in a deep WR class, but I think he can be a really good player.

God forbid we have to spend a 2nd Rounder on'm!!

I'm crazy about Harper...but I don't know if I could justify pulling the trigger on'm at #59.

Currently, SportsLine has'm in the 5th Round.

I'd expect the 3rd or 4th, myself...but you could certainly be right.

And thanks for the acknowledgment, Sir.

Christopher Harper is in fact my only Split End Binkie, and neither Flankers nor SlotBacks interest me much...Though I'd've made an exception for the phenomenal Quint Patton, had he not gotten too Gourmet ~ I owe you a Quarter, Brother Snake ~ for my taste. :snob:

 

[patsinthesnow]

Was watching some tape tonight, and I'm really surprised that Chris Harper isn't getting more love. Yeah, he's 6'1", 230, and runs a 4.45, but the guy can play football too. He really snatches the ball, and the Boldin comparisons actually have a lot of merit. He also had to deal with getting constantly screwed over by Klein's accuracy, which noticeably upset him a few times in what I watched.

I know that OTG and mayo are among his fans on here, but I think I'm the first person on here to put him in the late-second discussion. Probably not ideal value there in a deep WR class, but I think he can be a really good player.

Swope and Harper could reach late 2nd if they have great combines. (Stephen Hill 4th to 1st) We really should double up and grab two of the top 12 or so WRs.

 

[chevss454]

Swope and Harper could reach late 2nd if they have great combines. (Stephen Hill 4th to 1st) We really should double up and grab two of the top 12 or so WRs.

If BB is able to solidify our DB this could happen but wouldn't it knock our socks right off!? Since we're having fun I'll state my druthers:
1 big bodied WR such as Allen, Patterson (although his playing style makes me fear for his longevity), Hopkins, Woods, Patton, Williams. Later picks (3rd to 4th) for me: Hunter, Rogers, Dobson, Hamilton.
1 smaller quicker guy like Austin, Wheaton, Goodwin, Swope, Bailey, Sanders (although I'd fear for his life).
Pick 2 big bodied guys or 1 from each group. That's a lot of guys to choose from, but this is a very deep draft for WRs. & if that actually happened, I'd wish to be a fly on Brady's wall.

 

[manxman2601]

If BB is able to solidify our DB this could happen but wouldn't it knock our socks right off!? Since we're having fun I'll state my druthers:
1 big bodied WR such as Allen, Patterson (although his playing style makes me fear for his longevity), Hopkins, Woods, Patton, Williams. Later picks (3rd to 4th) for me: Hunter, Rogers, Dobson, Hamilton.
1 smaller quicker guy like Austin, Wheaton, Goodwin, Swope, Bailey, Sanders (although I'd fear for his life).
Pick 2 big bodied guys or 1 from each group. That's a lot of guys to choose from, but this is a very deep draft for WRs. & if that actually happened, I'd wish to be a fly on Brady's wall.

I'm getting to a place where I'm pretty much ready to write this draft off. Let's just draft WR's and CB's and nothing else because to be honest, those are the two positions on the roster that are a complete mess. At least with this approach, you'd hit on two or three at a minimum hopefully and then those two positions are fleshed out a little.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If BB is able to solidify our DB this could happen but wouldn't it knock our socks right off!? Since we're having fun I'll state my druthers:
1 big bodied WR such as Allen, Patterson (although his playing style makes me fear for his longevity), Hopkins, Woods, Patton, Williams. Later picks (3rd to 4th) for me: Hunter, Rogers, Dobson, Hamilton.
1 smaller quicker guy like Austin, Wheaton, Goodwin, Swope, Bailey, Sanders (although I'd fear for his life).
Pick 2 big bodied guys or 1 from each group. That's a lot of guys to choose from, but this is a very deep draft for WRs. & if that actually happened, I'd wish to be a fly on Brady's wall.

Yup, agreed. You can pick any one of the bigger, outside WRs. Then for the 2nd WR, you would have a choice between a slot WR type (Swope, Sanders, Vernon) or a Desean Jackson type smaller outside WR. (Goodwin, Wheaton, Woods)

If we draft them now, they will be in their 3rd year by the time Welker/Lloyd are out of gas at age 34.

 

[chevss454]

I'm getting to a place where I'm pretty much ready to write this draft off. Let's just draft WR's and CB's and nothing else because to be honest, those are the two positions on the roster that are a complete mess. At least with this approach, you'd hit on two or three at a minimum hopefully and then those two positions are fleshed out a little.

Well, I was just having fun with the thought...I'll be more serious in the future.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, I was just having fun with the thought...I'll be more serious in the future.

I was actually being fairly serious.

If we re-sign Vollmer what is there on our roster in terms of holes.

Wide Receiver - Only 1 signed long-term and he's over 30.

Corner Back - Only Dennard and Ras-I and of those two, one could be in Prison next year and the other in Hospital.

Aside from that, there's no desperate needs so why not overload on both WR and CB? Fill out the roster at those positions and see who ends up fitting the best.

I'd love a pass-rusher or a top quality OL like Watson or Cooper or a high upside TE like Kasa but we don't necessarily need them right now. So why not do something like:

Trade back in to Rnd 2.

2A Robert Woods

2B Logan Ryan

3A Stedman Bailey

3B Trade

4 Chris Harper

5 JJ Wilcox

7A DJ Hayden

7B Rontez Miles


Obviously that seems excessive and almost certainly wouldn't happen but at least that way we fully stock the WR and DB positions and there's a better chance of some of those picks hitting.

I do promise to return to full sanity tomorrow

 

[chevss454]

Heh. I'm right there with you on Woods, Bailey and Harper but we should stop this nonsense before someone thinks we're for serious.

(Add Bumphis as late rnd slot & I'm all in)

 

[stelfans]

I agree we should get 2 wr, and when you think that they have been double dipping in a position in thelast few drafts...why not? If you want a position to do that this year is defenitly WR.

I always liked Swope, not the greates athlete but the kid can play football and reminds me a lot of welker and how he can handle the beating he takes in the slot.

A combination of Hopkins/Patton/Hunter/Wheaton and Harper/Swope/Bailey/Dobson would make me very happy.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I was actually being fairly serious.

If we re-sign Vollmer what is there on our roster in terms of holes.

Wide Receiver - Only 1 signed long-term and he's over 30.

Corner Back - Only Dennard and Ras-I and of those two, one could be in Prison next year and the other in Hospital.

Aside from that, there's no desperate needs so why not overload on both WR and CB? Fill out the roster at those positions and see who ends up fitting the best.

I'd love a pass-rusher or a top quality OL like Watson or Cooper or a high upside TE like Kasa but we don't necessarily need them right now. So why not do something like:

Trade back in to Rnd 2.

2A Robert Woods

2B Logan Ryan

3A Stedman Bailey

3B Trade

4 Chris Harper

5 JJ Wilcox

7A DJ Hayden

7B Rontez Miles


Obviously that seems excessive and almost certainly wouldn't happen but at least that way we fully stock the WR and DB positions and there's a better chance of some of those picks hitting.

I do promise to return to full sanity tomorrow

No rush. I am a big fan of over-the-top manx. Seems like this a rare perfect storm of positional need and apparent depth in those areas available in the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Lloyd isn't getting cut, people suggesting that are idiots. Edelman, the rookies, Demps, Woodhead, Vereen and Ballard will all take up slack. You don't have to replace Welker's production with one or even two players.

I think that the Pats re-do Lloyd's deal so that they get an extra year and spread the "option" money out over the 3.

 

[DaBruinz]

Was watching some tape tonight, and I'm really surprised that Chris Harper isn't getting more love. Yeah, he's 6'1", 230, and runs a 4.45, but the guy can play football too. He really snatches the ball, and the Boldin comparisons actually have a lot of merit. He also had to deal with getting constantly screwed over by Klein's accuracy, which noticeably upset him a few times in what I watched.

I know that OTG and mayo are among his fans on here, but I think I'm the first person on here to put him in the late-second discussion. Probably not ideal value there in a deep WR class, but I think he can be a really good player.

Remember that value is in the eye of the beholder. How many people throught that the Pats had lost it by taking Wilson in the 2nd round? Yet the Pats were perfectly happy with it because no one was willing to give them good value in return for the pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

Swope and Harper could reach late 2nd if they have great combines. (Stephen Hill 4th to 1st) We really should double up and grab two of the top 12 or so WRs.

With only 5 draft picks, the only way I see the Pats doubling up on WR is if they were able to strike gold in Free Agency by adding top talent at CB, O-line and D-line really cheap. The Pats have just as big of need at CB and S as they do at WR.

 

[chevss454]

Here's pretty much what I'm thinking regarding the WRs in the draft that could interest the Pats. Patterson has drawn Randy Moss comparisons but he's a bit raw in his routes but has plus athleticism with quickness.

I could pick 2 of these guys, 2, 6'1" or more or 1, 6'1" or more + 1, 6'1" or less from this group and be very happy.

1st, 2nd or 3rd rnd. Keenan Allen 6'3" 210, Cordarelle Patterson 6'3" 205, Robert Woods 6'1", 190, Tavon Austin 5'9" 175, Terrance Williams 6'2", 201, DeAndre Hopkins 6'1", 200, Quinton Patton, 6', 202 lb, Marcus Wheaton, 5'11" 185, DaRick Rogers, 6'2" 206, Ryan Swope, 6', 204.

4th, 5th or 6th rnd. Chris Harper, 6'1", 228, Marcus Davis, 6'3" 230, Ace Sanders, 5'8", 176, Josh Boyce, 5'11", 203, Aaron Dobson, 6'3" 203, Stedman Bailey, 5'10" 195.

7th or UDFA. Aaron Mellette, 6'3" 216, Denard Robinson, 5'11" 195, Emory Blake, 6'1" 200, Chad Bumphis, 5'10", 202, Russell Shepard, 6' 195,

There are plenty more from the 4th rnd on I could have added but this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list as much as it is to simply point out the depth of this draft at the WR position. Caveat: these are Pre-Combine round projections.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Here's pretty much what I'm thinking regarding the WRs in the draft that could interest the Pats. Patterson has drawn Randy Moss comparisons but he's a bit raw in his routes but has plus athleticism with quickness.

I could pick 2 of these guys, 2, 6'1" or more or 1, 6'1" or more + 1, 6'1" or less from this group and be very happy.

1st, 2nd or 3rd rnd. Keenan Allen 6'3" 210, Cordarelle Patterson 6'3" 205, Robert Woods 6'1", 190, Tavon Austin 5'9" 175, Terrance Williams 6'2", 201, DeAndre Hopkins 6'1", 200, Quinton Patton, 6', 202 lb, Marcus Wheaton, 5'11" 185, DaRick Rogers, 6'2" 206, Ryan Swope, 6', 204.

4th, 5th or 6th rnd. Chris Harper, 6'1", 228, Marcus Davis, 6'3" 230, Ace Sanders, 5'8", 176, Josh Boyce, 5'11", 203, Aaron Dobson, 6'3" 203, Stedman Bailey, 5'10" 195.

7th or UDFA. Aaron Mellette, 6'3" 216, Denard Robinson, 5'11" 195, Emory Blake, 6'1" 200, Chad Bumphis, 5'10", 202, Russell Shepard, 6' 195,

There are plenty more from the 4th rnd on I could have added but this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list as much as it is to simply point out the depth of this draft at the WR position. Caveat: these are Pre-Combine round projections.

If Welker walks, and we don't draft Tavon Austin (who would be a perfect replacement, he even mentions the Patriot's offense as the type he'd love to play in), I'd really love to get Swope to replace Welker.

 

[Pats0204]

Another forgotten WR is the kid that left the Washington State program. I know there's a little bit of uncertainty there with the way he left, but he was a real talented kid; Marquez Wilson; 6-3, 188lbs. Before all the drama, in 2011, he had a great year with 82, 1400, 12. I'd definitely take a look late in the draft. Looks like a 2-3rd round talent who wont get picked up until late. It will be interesting to see what he measures out at. He needed to put on weight so I am curious to see what he weighs this weekend.

 

[Pats0204]

...........and right on queue his measureables just became available.

WR Marquess Wilson weighed in at 6'3" 194 31 1/8 arms. Gained a little weight but the arms look short for a 6'3 guy no?