Can we talk WR for a bit?

[manxman2601]

This is some excellent analysis on the WR position. The writer says he'll be adding other receivers later. Well worth the read:

Tier 1 WRs: Allen, Patterson, Bailey and Hopkins, A Metrics Breakdown « Second Round Stats

For those looking for the deep threat, check out Deandre Hopkins.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hunter's currently projected in the 2nd round but will probably rise following the combine. Hopkins is projected anywhere from mid to late 1st to high 2nd.

There are some lwgitimate concerns about Hunter's character and consistency. Hopkins is probably the best WR in terms of route running and hands. My favourite is Markus Wheaton who combines good route running, good hands, downfield speed and the short area quickness that BB likes.

I hope those concerns keep coming so that the Pats can get their hands on him. He's my favorite receiver in the draft.

 

[manxman2601]

I hope those concerns keep coming so that the Pats can get their hands on him. He's my favorite receiver in the draft.

I can see the upside but I just don't see him being productive in our offense unfortunately.

 

[Kontradiction]

I can see the upside but I just don't see him being productive in our offense unfortunately.

Do you mind if I ask why?

 

[manxman2601]

Do you mind if I ask why?

Sure.

1. Some character concerns. His HC Derek Dooley questioned his attitude in training. Considering how important intelligence is for our WR's and how important being in sync with Brady is, that's a red flag.

2. We're probably looking at a two year window for Brady at most. Three if we're lucky. Do we really want to start changing our passing offense now to accomodate a very different type receiver?

3. Not sure he'll get the number of catches to warrant the high pick.

4. He's 6'4" and will likely run pretty fast at the combine. He should be a top 10 pick. If he's not one has to ask why, if he's not good enough for pretty much every NFL team, is he good enough for us?


I can really see the appeal on Hunter and when I watch him, I wonder why I have doubts and at the end of the day, I'll be optimistically excited if we draft him. But there are genuine concerns in my view and I think the more reliable receivers like hopkins, Patton and Wheaton are more likely to succeed in our offense currently designed as it is.

 

[Sciz]

For those looking for the deep threat, check out Deandre Hopkins.

My favorite WR, although probably not my favorite value. I know the comparison will look bad now, but he plays a lot like Brandon Lloyd. He's not ridiculously fast (he'd still be the fastest WR on the team), but he uses his success with the intermediate routes to kill CBs with double moves. He also has that Hernandez skill of catching the ball, doing a 180, and running back against the grain for a bunch of extra yards. I also saw him just plow through a CB on one play. So he's basically Lloyd before the catch and Hernandez after the catch

 

[manxman2601]

My favorite WR, although probably not my favorite value. I know the comparison will look bad now, but he plays a lot like Brandon Lloyd. He's not ridiculously fast (he'd still be the fastest WR on the team), but he uses his success with the intermediate routes to kill CBs with double moves. He also has that Hernandez skill of catching the ball, doing a 180, and running back against the grain for a bunch of extra yards. I also saw him just plow through a CB on one play. So he's basically Lloyd before the catch and Hernandez after the catch

Yup. As much as I like Wheaton, I think Hopkins is the most likely to succeed early. The only concern is his speed. He was outstanding against LSU.

 

[Kontradiction]

Sure.

1. Some character concerns. His HC Derek Dooley questioned his attitude in training. Considering how important intelligence is for our WR's and how important being in sync with Brady is, that's a red flag.

2. We're probably looking at a two year window for Brady at most. Three if we're lucky. Do we really want to start changing our passing offense now to accomodate a very different type receiver?

3. Not sure he'll get the number of catches to warrant the high pick.

4. He's 6'4" and will likely run pretty fast at the combine. He should be a top 10 pick. If he's not one has to ask why, if he's not good enough for pretty much every NFL team, is he good enough for us?


I can really see the appeal on Hunter and when I watch him, I wonder why I have doubts and at the end of the day, I'll be optimistically excited if we draft him. But there are genuine concerns in my view and I think the more reliable receivers like hopkins, Patton and Wheaton are more likely to succeed in our offense currently designed as it is.

His Wonderlic scores should be interesting. If they're high, I would have to think that understanding our complicated offense would be a formality at that point. But thanks for the feedback.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Yup. As much as I like Wheaton, I think Hopkins is the most likely to succeed early. The only concern is his speed. He was outstanding against LSU.

I'd probably go Wheaton. A possible Mike Wallace type receiver at a much lower price tag. Those itty bitty hands could be a concern for scouts though.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'd safely say he has got Jacoby Jones speed. Ran a 10.58 100 meter in track. That's less than 1 second off the Olympic world record by the way. Not the most polished receiver coming out of college but by no means does he have poor skills. He can actually adjust for the ball unlike some burners.

 

[dryheat44]

I'd probably go Wheaton. A possible Mike Wallace type receiver at a much lower price tag. Those itty bitty hands could be a concern for scouts though.

It's definitely a concern. It was also the biggest knock against Torrey Smith a few years ago. Seems like he's able to overcome them.

 

[Spergon Wynn]

What do you all think of Chris Harper out of KSU? I don't know much about him but I saw some of him on the Senior Bowl practices and he looks like a big physical receiver that the Patriots could use. He should be there in the mid to late rounds.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Sure.

1. Some character concerns. His HC Derek Dooley questioned his attitude in training. Considering how important intelligence is for our WR's and how important being in sync with Brady is, that's a red flag.

I think the character thing has been completely overblown by 1 comment by his coach. I think it was just a case of a HC trying to motivate his WR because he wasn't living up to expectations (which were extremely high). In the same comment he also praised him so I wouldn't read too much into it.

2. We're probably looking at a two year window for Brady at most. Three if we're lucky. Do we really want to start changing our passing offense now to accomodate a very different type receiver?

I actually think we have a blueprint of how to use Hunter. His style of play has been compared to Randy Moss, and while I certainly wouldn't say he is as talented as Moss was, I think he could be used in the same way. I actually think he would offer a little more versatility than Moss did because he offers more route versatility due to his willingness to go over the middle. He might not put up huge numbers early on, but he should make big plays.

In the end I think what will seperate the WR's is value. There are a bunch of really good guys I would be happy to take, and who I would target depends largely on who will fall. I would be happy to trade out of the first and target 2 guys in the mid/late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

[DaBruinz]

There really aren't a lot of deep threats. Randy Moss who can run 4.3 and can take the lid off of the defense. We're seeing a lot of 6'3-6'4 guys who are pretty good size weight wise that can still run 4.5. I want a guy like that. Doesn't have to be Julio Jones or AJ Green. Just a big target who can run too. Maybe a guy like De'Andre Hopkins. Couple of others like Patterson, Justin Hunter and Terence Williams. It's absolutely a need. Brady can still throw a good deep ball. Hit Lloyd against SF. Hell, he hit Hooman against them too. Gronk almost brought that one down against Houston. He's not as bad at it as you think.

Here's a novel idea. Why not just move Hernandez to WR full time?

 

[Off The Grid]

What do you all think of Chris Harper out of KSU?

I don't know much about him but I saw some of him on the Senior Bowl practices and he looks like a big physical receiver that the Patriots could use. He should be there in the mid to late rounds.

Big Fan.

Exactly what this Offense needs.

I'll take 3, please.

 

[Sciz]

Here's a novel idea. Why not just move Hernandez to WR full time?

It doesn't matter what you call him. He's lining up at WR more than TE anyway.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Big Fan.

Exactly what this Offense needs.

I'll take 3, please.

He's a very interesting player.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Here's a novel idea. Why not just move Hernandez to WR full time?

He's not a mismatch on a corner.

 

[Off The Grid]

Here's a novel idea. Why not just move Hernandez to WR full time?

No offense, Bro, but that would destroy his deadliest Attribute: His Unpredictability.

FootBall is a viciously competitive War Game.

When Aaron The Navigator is out there, the D has no clue if we're going to Run or Pass.

That is a gigantic Advantage...which we would be hideously foolish to surrender.

 

[DaBruinz]

No offense, Bro, but that would destroy his deadliest Attribute: His Unpredictability.

FootBall is a viciously competitive War Game.

When Aaron The Navigator is out there, the D has no clue if we're going to Run or Pass.

That is a gigantic Advantage...which we would be hideously foolish to surrender.

Sorry, OTG, but Ahern being on the field as a WR full time wouldn't change any unpredictability. In fact, they could bring him in to BLOCK on running plays and have one of the best blocking WRs in the league.

And I have to disagree that Hernandez wouldn't be a mismatch against a Corner. You're talking about a guy who is 6'2 and 3/8 and 245 who also has a decent vertical and good quickness. Once he gets the pass, DBs will be struggling to get him down quickly..