Can we talk WR for a bit?

[VrabelJr]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

So it appears you like a bunch of big guys who can't run routes and have issues catching the ball (not all of them, but most of them on your like list) ? You should become a Browns or Jaguars fan if that's your type of WR.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

I'm sick of having all midgets in the team. We need to take a different approach and get some longer guys in.

Don't want:
Boyce
Wheaton
Goodwin
Bailey
Hamilton

LIKE:
Patterson
Allen
Da'Rick Rogers
Justin Hunter
Robert Woods
Aaron Dobson
T Williams
DeAndre Hopkins

Like:

Good WRs.

Don't Like:

Bad Ones.


Couldn't give a Castlemaine about how tall they are. Can they run routes? Can they gain separation? Are they intelligent enough to understand the system? Can they catch? That's what we should be worrying about, not whether they need a stool to stand on when changing a lightbulb. We have tall receivers, they're called Tight Ends.

 

[Leemo]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

Like:

Good WRs.

Don't Like:

Bad Ones.


Couldn't give a Castlemaine about how tall they are. Can they run routes? Can they gain separation? Are they intelligent enough to understand the system? Can they catch? That's what we should be worrying about, not whether they need a stool to stand on when changing a lightbulb. We have tall receivers, they're called Tight Ends.

You seem to be all over Wheaton, he doesn't seem special in any way at all. Care to enlighten me?

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

You seem to be all over Wheaton, he doesn't seem special in any way at all. Care to enlighten me?

Excellent athleticism and speed, gets separation with ease, fits the Patriot system, ++ character. The two main reasons I liked him were a) he's got Patriot character by the bucket load and B) he provides the quickess that BB likes in his receivers whilst offering deep threat speed. He's just a great fit.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

You seem to be all over Wheaton, he doesn't seem special in any way at all. Care to enlighten me?

My answer is that he was clearly one of the best athletes at the combine at WR, has good hands, good character and is said to be a good route runner.

Look at the combine numbers :

2013 NFL Combine Results: Wide Receivers | Steelers Depot

One of the best 3 cones and 40s. The third best Shuttle (only 1/100th behind Tavon Austin). With 20 reps he also was one of the strongest WR despite his slight size. Excluding Austin because he'll be gone the only other WR who had as good a combine are Boyce, Moe and Rogers (who interests me but getting kicked off Tennessee pushes him down far enough for me that I think he'll be gone). Wheaton isn't just a combine freak, though, he had 76 catches two years ago and 91 last year.

 

[Leemo]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

My answer is that he was clearly one of the best athletes at the combine at WR, has good hands, good character and is said to be a good route runner.

Look at the combine numbers :

2013 NFL Combine Results: Wide Receivers | Steelers Depot

One of the best 3 cones and 40s. The third best Shuttle (only 1/100th behind Tavon Austin). With 20 reps he also was one of the strongest WR despite his slight size. Excluding Austin because he'll be gone the only other WR who had as good a combine are Boyce, Moe and Rogers (who interests me but getting kicked off Tennessee pushes him down far enough for me that I think he'll be gone). Wheaton isn't just a combine freak, though, he had 76 catches two years ago and 91 last year.

who are we the raiders?

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

who are we the raiders?

Got a problem with great character, good routes and 167 catches in two seasons ?

I know, if only he were three inches taller :bricks:

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

who are we the raiders?

There are some very important measurables when it comes to how the Patriots grade receivers and the 40 time, 3-cone and to a lesser degree vertical jump/short-shuttle. We don't draft receivers without a good 3-cone (at least in the past). Justin Hunter has the worst 3-cone of any WR at the combine so unless BB is changing his approach, Hunter will not be a Patriot I'm afraid.

 

[Leemo]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

There are some very important measurables when it comes to how the Patriots grade receivers and the 40 time, 3-cone and to a lesser degree vertical jump/short-shuttle. We don't draft receivers without a good 3-cone (at least in the past). Justin Hunter has the worst 3-cone of any WR at the combine so unless BB is changing his approach, Hunter will not be a Patriot I'm afraid.

Remind me of our record when it comes to drafting receivers again?

A change of philosophy is needed imo.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

Remind me of our record when it comes to drafting receivers again?

It's a small sample size. Since Branch we've only taken two WR higher than the 3rd round. I get that those two were complete (Chad Jackson) and moderate (Bethel Johnson) busts and the two #3s (Price and Tate) were busts also but we're talking about late #1 picks here, a different category of quality than every WR listed other than Jackson.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

Remind me of our record when it comes to drafting receivers again?

A change of philosophy is needed imo.

Two good ones
1 OK one
Three bad ones


That's about average for a WR's taken outside of the first round. Has nothing to do with the philosophy and everything to do with with the high number of WRs that bust in the NFL.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Just for the record I'm a big fan of Wheaton. He's got decent size but he is strong and quick. The thing I like best about him if you watch his games is that he can run every route tree in the book. There is no question because its all on film. He played the slot, can go intermediate and deep. He's played running back. Oh yeah he can also block out of the backfield. Every player in the draft is a crapshoot pretty much but I'd definitely be ok with BB drafting him. Hit or miss he's the wr who fits the Patriots mold to me.

 

[Avenger]

Keenan Allen might be a target in the first or early 2nd with a trade back, has the size and speed to be a #1 outside receiver.

 

[edboc]

Interesting article on rookie receivers from Kenny Byrne:
Epic Fail: The Wide Receiver Draft Class Of 2012

Wide receivers are overvalued for one basic reason: they simply do not touch the ball enough to justify big money or high draft picks.

 

[BelichickFan]

Keenan Allen might be a target in the first or early 2nd with a trade back, has the size and speed to be a #1 outside receiver.

Numbers fluctuate until officials come out but Allen supposedly ran a 4.7 (ick) his first time and a 4.45 (nice) his second. Wonder if he had a bad start the first time and what the official numbers will be.

Edit : Evidently Mike Mayock timed him at 4.71 and 4.75.

Oy.

 

[State]

Some analysts think the second best receiver in this draft is Cal's Keenan Allen, behind Tavon Austin. The fact his 40 time is 4.7 today at his pro day means he may slip to the second round. This if this is true, we can attempt to drop down with extra decent picks, and still get him early in the second round.

This is looking promising.

 

[Ozymandias]

Numbers fluctuate until officials come out but Allen supposedly ran a 4.7 (ick) his first time and a 4.45 (nice) his second. Wonder if he had a bad start the first time and what the official numbers will be.

Edit : Evidently Mike Mayock timed him at 4.71 and 4.75.

Oy.

Mayock also said he was told by scouts that Allen plays at a 4.55 or so range on tape and he doesn't seem very concerned about the lack of a great 40 time. So I doubt other teams are either. He was never a burner to begin with but he does a lot things well for his size and athleticism. He's also a physical mismatch all over the formation. Its been stated many times already but he really does remind me of a Miles Austin type athlete.

His lack of foot speed will hurt his stock a bit - this likely takes him out of late first round consideration (teams rarely pick WRs that run 4.6-4.7 40s in the first round unless they possess Larry Fitzgerald-esque skills and intangibles) unless someone like the Vikings are smitten with him, he will still be a second round pick. Will he slip all down to the Patriots at the bottom of second? Who knows, its unlikely but it will be interesting to see where he ends up.

 

[mgteich]

4.71 and 4.77 at a pro day is not my choice for a flanker, not even in the 3rd.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Patriots rumors: New England to draft WR

There are some very important measurables when it comes to how the Patriots grade receivers and the 40 time, 3-cone and to a lesser degree vertical jump/short-shuttle. We don't draft receivers without a good 3-cone (at least in the past). Justin Hunter has the worst 3-cone of any WR at the combine so unless BB is changing his approach, Hunter will not be a Patriot I'm afraid.

Manx - a correction for you. Hunter didn't run the 3-cone at the combine. He ran the Short Shuttle in a 4.33.

He ran the 3-cone at his Pro-Day and ran it in 7.19.

That being said, 4.33 isn't great for a 20 yard shuttle score.

The only "WR" that I can find that the Patriots drafted that had worse numbers than that is Matt Slater. And as we all know, he's not really a WR.

Taylor Price's short shuttle was slightly worse at a 4.34.
Brandon Tate didn't Participate in the Combine or Pro Day due to injury. The last recorded numbers at the school were a 7.25 3 cone and a 4.12 Short Shuttle.

But, as we all know. Those numbers don't tell the whole story. It's what you do with the pads on that counts. But, it certainly doesn't help his case.

 

[belichick010405]

OT but I wanted to say hey to DaBruinz since we go back to the ESPN board. Good to see you around....