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Can we talk WR for a bit?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by midwestpatsfan, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #95 Jersey

    I do want to talk about specific guys that you all like for this team, but first I was hoping we could talk about scheme and fit.

    I am torn a bit. At first glance, saying the patriots need a guy who can stretch the field seems like the easy answer. After the Ravens game, I think you saw a team that has WR's who got beat up on anything underneath and the Ravens almost dared the Patriots to try and go deep, which the Patriots did not really try to do all that often, and when they did, they were unsuccessful except one seam pass to Welker.

    Then I thought about it some more, and I almost convinced myself that maybe a Torrey Smith type receiver is not the answer. Now hear me out. I know it goes against everything I just said was wrong, but as Brady gets older, his deep ball accuracy has gone down, and has always probably been the weakest part of his game anyways. So does that speedster really help?

    Maybe what we need is a guy who can take a 10 yard slant and turn it into a 40 yard play with his speed and athleticism. Welker has been amazing, but lets face it, he wasn't catching all those balls just because of talent, he plays with heart, guts, and determination more than god given football talent.

    So, to sum up this long winded thread. What do you guys want? Do you think a guy who is more of a speed guy that maybe limited to the deep routes is going to help, or would you like a Welker type with a little more physical gifts that can stretch the field in a different way? Finally, are there guys in this draft that you like that fit into one of these two roles that you would like to draft?

    I hope this thread gets a good discussion going, because I don't really know where I stand right now or who I want, I just know that it is something that needs to be addressed somehow.
     
  2. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    There really aren't a lot of deep threats. Randy Moss who can run 4.3 and can take the lid off of the defense. We're seeing a lot of 6'3-6'4 guys who are pretty good size weight wise that can still run 4.5. I want a guy like that. Doesn't have to be Julio Jones or AJ Green. Just a big target who can run too. Maybe a guy like De'Andre Hopkins. Couple of others like Patterson, Justin Hunter and Terence Williams. It's absolutely a need. Brady can still throw a good deep ball. Hit Lloyd against SF. Hell, he hit Hooman against them too. Gronk almost brought that one down against Houston. He's not as bad at it as you think.
     
  3. Pats0204

    Pats0204 On the Game Day Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    Well, there are quite a few "good" receivers in this draft of both the styles you reference. I know a lot of people like Patterson from Tennessee but I'm not that high on him. For me, in my opinion, Hopkins is the best receiver in this class followed by Allen then Patton. I know that's not how most folks have them ranked but it's just what I believe. All three of the above referenced guys are big and have a physical aspect to their game. None of them are Boldin clones but all of them offer more physicality than anyone currently on the roster. Another interesting name is USC's Robert Woods. I like Woods but certainly not in the 1st round. If he is there at the end of round 2 and the other 3 are gone, (Hopkins and Allen will certainly be gone by then) I'd be very happy with Woods.

    Anyway, if you're interested in reading a lot of info on Woods, below is a draft profile that I wrote up on him for someone who asked me to:

    "Robert Woods Draft Profile
    School: University of Southern California (PAC 12)
    Position: Wide Receiver
    Height: 6-1 Weight: 185 lbs Class: Junior
    Overview:
    Robert Woods, a consensus All American in high school, had his choice of college football programs to attend. Both his father and uncle played college football at Grambling but Woods, possessing far more talent, decided after a phenomenal high school career, to attend USC. He exploded on to the college football scene as a true freshman with 65 catches, 792 yards and 6 touchdowns, earning several Freshman All – American honors and PAC 10 (12) Offensive Freshman of the Year. Had Robert Woods been eligible for last April’s NFL draft (he wasn’t; as he was not 3 years removed from his high school graduation), he would have been a lock to be the first receiver off the board. Coming off a record setting sophomore season in 2011, Woods was a finalist for the Biletnikoff award in which he posted 111 catches, 1292 yards and 15td’s. Additionally, he was a semi-finalist for the Maxwell Award.
    However, in the spring of 2012, he suffered an ankle injury in a pickup basketball game that required arthroscopic surgery. The injury had a significant impact during the season and was one of the two main reasons his productivity and stock has dropped significantly from this time last year. While Woods should be recognized for his toughness and durability (he did not miss a game due to injury in his USC career), there is no question the ankle impaired his ability and explosiveness this year. Woods finished the season with 74 catches, 840 yards, 11 TD’s and a career low 11.5 yards per catch.
    The other reason for the dip in productivity was the emergence of Marquise Lee in the USC program. Lee, the dynamic, playmaking sophomore became quarterback Matt Barkley’s favorite target finishing the year with an astounding 118 catches, 1721 yards, 14 TD’s and 14.6 yards per catch.

    Strengths:
    Woods generally has good size for an NFL receiver. At 6-1 and 185 lbs, he possesses a lanky, long build that allows him to reach over smaller defensive backs and catch the ball away from his body. He uses his body well to shield himself from defenders to make the catch. He does an excellent job of catching the ball with his hands rather than allowing it to come in to his body. He is quite agile, lean and shifty and while he does possess pure speed, he is even quicker than fast.
    Woods runs the complete route tree and is exceptionally dangerous when he runs fade routes in the red zone. Woods is not afraid to run crossing routes across the middle either and often sacrifices his body to make the catch.
    He possesses very good speed. He has the ability to make defenders miss and pay for it by running away from them. Woods can take a 5 yard screen and turn it into a 60 yard touchdown. Woods was a track star in high school; placing 2nd in the 400m, 3rd in the 200m and anchored the state champion 1600 meter relay team his senior year.
    Woods demonstrates excellent use of his hands and has a knack for making the spectacular catch. In addition to his speed, good hands and agility, perhaps what makes him most attractive to the NFL scouts, is his versatility. In his USC career, Woods has returned both punts and kicks with regularity, having great success with both, earning All Pac 10 (12) first team honors in 2010.

    Weakness:
    NFL teams will certainly do a thorough check of Woods’ surgically repaired ankle to ensure there will be no future issues. Assuming the ankle checks out ok, this should not impact his draft stock significantly.
    In terms of other areas of opportunity, Woods could certainly gain some weight. One weakness that I saw on tape this year was that he struggled getting off the line in press coverage due to his lack of upper body strength. Certainly, in the NFL, this will only become more of an issue if he does not continue to gain weight and bulk up. If Woods can gain an additional 20 lbs without sacrificing speed or agility, it would significantly contribute to his game.
    Another question NFL teams will look to answer for themselves when they work Woods out will be to determine how much, if at all, his numbers were inflated due to top level QB play and the additional protection on the other side in WR Marquise Lee.

    Summary:
    Woods is a polished, complete receiver who possesses very good speed and hands. He runs excellent routes and has good size with a lanky frame. I expect him to put up very good numbers and measure out well at the combine which could improve his stock. With a very deep and talented wide receiver pool in this year’s draft, I expect Woods to be drafted in the late 2nd round.

    Projected Round: Late 2nd

    Pro Comparison: Reggie Wayne"
     
  4. murphysbuddylove

    murphysbuddylove On the Roster

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    Is their a site that gives nfl player comparisons for draft picks. I like seeing those type sites. Also anyone seen any magazines out???
     
  5. Pats0204

    Pats0204 On the Game Day Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    There are a few sites that give pro player comparisons. NFL.com is one. In terms of magazines, they'll be out in early March. However, they are really out of date come draft night.
     
  6. Username

    Username Practice Squad Player

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    #95 Jersey

    I honestly think Robert Woods is overall the best WR in this draft class and could be very special indeed if he adjusts his mentality ever so slightly. I think he's very much underrated and flying under the radar, if such a thing is possible for someone projected to go late 1st/2nd round
     
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    This page was updated in early January. It gives a lot of good insights to some prospects in the draft.

    From that list, I like Terrance Williams, Justin Hunter, and Cobi Hamilton. Those three, to me, possess what we need at the WR position: size, speed, and athleticism. What I'm interested in after that is their Wonderlic scores. Obviously, they would need to be able to process and digest the offense while being on the same page, route-wise as Brady. This team has either had guys who had all the athletic talent in the world but couldn't *GET IT* (Chad Jackson) or has had less athletic smart guys (Julian Edelman). I want to see them hit on both.
     
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Woods is gifted but, ideally, we want someone that can threaten every level of the field. From what little USC games I saw this season, it didn't really look (to me at least) like Woods was willing to go over the middle.
     
  9. Pats0204

    Pats0204 On the Game Day Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    Really? I thought this was one of his strengths. Why do you think that? Not saying you're wrong, just curious as to how you came to be of that opinion.
    Also, totally agree on the size, speed and athleticism on Hunter, Williams and Hamilton (in that order, IMO).
     
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Just based on what I saw. Again, I could be wrong. I live in Florida and we're limited to USC viewing unless they're playing a big school or are in a bowl game.
     
  11. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    I posted this in the blueprint thread. Figured it's a better fit here and moved it here.

    It seems the opinion of many posters that's it's crazy to draft a wr in the first. Why the aversion to drafting a wr with a first? I submit the following champions. I don't want to go Matt Millen and draft em every year. But, as the evidence shows. Targeting and drafting one can help you win a championship.

    72-73 Dolphins - Traded a 1st 3rd overall for Paul Warfield.
    70'S Steelers - Drafted Lynn Swann 21st overall in 74 and won 4 of next 6.
    82-91 Redskins - 3X Champs had Art Monk a 1st Rounder in 1980 18th overall.
    88-94 49'ers - Traded up with our Pats in 85 after already winning 2 Super Bowls
    and drafted Jerry Rice. Won 3 more.
    90's Cowboys - Michael Irvin 88 and Alvin Harper 91 were 1st Rounders. Won 3.
    99 Rams - Drafted Tory Holt in the first.
    06 Colts - Marvin Harrison 96 and Reggie Wayne in 01.
    08 Steelers - Santonio Holmes is a major douche bag. But, he did help them win
    a Super Bowl.
    11 NYG - Hakeem Nicks in 2009.
     
  12. NEboiTB

    NEboiTB On the Roster

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    What about Tavon Austin from West Virginia? He is extremely versatile; he can run out of the slot and make plays after the catch, he has the speed to stretch the field deep, he can be an electrifying return man and he can even run it out of the backfield. To me he just screams a player that Bill would love to have. Hes a plug him in anywhere and he will make a play type of player. The only knock on him is his size but I don't know if I would be too worried about that.
     
  13. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    He reminds me of Desean Jackson with his size speed combo. He would also be an excellent contributor on special teams returns. The only knock on him is size but he's got the same height build as Wes Welker just with more pure speed.
     
  14. EwanSellars

    EwanSellars On the Game Day Roster

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    #15 Jersey

    if we let welker go id be happy with tavon austin in the mid 2nd if we could trade down i dont think a 1st round pick is worth it for him but he realy is electrifying
     
  15. Italian Patriot

    Italian Patriot Practice Squad Player

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    Not a draft expert, so I ask you..

    I think we need a #1 WR like Fitzgerald or Moss (2007 version, of course).
    As a slot WR we have Welker, Edelman or we can sign Amendola (not the same thing, I know..)

    Which prospect do you see as most similar as Fitz? On the contrary which is a Welker - type?

    Thank you
     
  16. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Randy Moss = Justin Hunter

    Fitz = DeAndre Hopkins

    Reggie Wayne = Robert Woods or Quinton Patton

    Welker = TJ Moe, Ryan Swope

    Mike Wallace = Marquise Goodwin (possibly), Markus Wheaton

    Those are very basic approximations and I'm only comparing playing style and not necessarily ability.
     
  17. yopats

    yopats On the Game Day Roster

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    Who does Da'Rick Rogers compare to?



    Sent From My Galaxy Tab on Tapatalk
     
  18. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I've not really watched him enough but I've seen him compared to Julio Jones in terms of playing style.
     
  19. Italian Patriot

    Italian Patriot Practice Squad Player

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    Thanks.

    Saw highlights of Hopkins and Hunter. Impressive.

    Projected pick? Mid - end 1st round?
     
  20. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Hunter's currently projected in the 2nd round but will probably rise following the combine. Hopkins is projected anywhere from mid to late 1st to high 2nd.

    There are some lwgitimate concerns about Hunter's character and consistency. Hopkins is probably the best WR in terms of route running and hands. My favourite is Markus Wheaton who combines good route running, good hands, downfield speed and the short area quickness that BB likes.
     

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