Can we put an end to the Watson debate?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yes, it's preseason.

No, you can't discount what you see with your eyes.

The argument for years was that Watson is a great player in the wrong system, a superior athlete who for whatever reason wasn't a good fit for this offense. Brady is too focused on Welker and Moss, the argument ran.

Sorry, I've seen enough. I've been drooling for a solid tight end for years. Heck, Brady made Daniel Graham and Christian Fauria into relevant offensive players.

Seattle, you got ripped off.

I'm pumped for this season. This offense won't be as dominating as 2007, but they might be as effective, especially in short yardage situations. Watch out for this offense, they have a lot of weapons.

PS: I don't care if these are Rams scrubs. Gronkowski and Hernandez can CATCH the ball and then gain extra yardage. I'm not sure Watson could do that in practice.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Can't blame it all on Watson. Didn't he make an amazing catch last week for Cleveland? David Thomas is the starting tight end for the World Champion Saints and was non-existent in the Patriots offense as well.

The Patriots offense was (was as in past tense) built on Welker and Moss. Getting the ball to Welker in the slot oftentimes came at the expense of any tight end targets in the middle of the field.

Scheme definitely had an impact.

 

[Triumph]

I cant wait to end the Maroney debate.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Yes, it's preseason.

No, you can't discount what you see with your eyes.

The argument for years was that Watson is a great player in the wrong system, a superior athlete who for whatever reason wasn't a good fit for this offense. Brady is too focused on Welker and Moss, the argument ran.

Sorry, I've seen enough. I've been drooling for a solid tight end for years. Heck, Brady made Daniel Graham and Christian Fauria into relevant offensive players.

Seattle, you got ripped off.

I'm pumped for this season. This offense won't be as dominating as 2007, but they might be as effective, especially in short yardage situations. Watch out for this offense, they have a lot of weapons.

PS: I don't care if these are Rams scrubs. Gronkowski and Hernandez can CATCH the ball and then gain extra yardage. I'm not sure Watson could do that in practice.

I agree. With his size and overall ability, Gronk should be a a really good one.

With Hernandez getting so much attention for what he brings to the passing game, it's easy to forget about Gronkowski. I don't think that will be a problem after this game.

 

[Rob0729]

Watson was too inconsistent where he would catch the impossible ball and drop the easy ones, but it is way too early to tell anything.

 

[IllegalContact]

I didn't know there was a Watson debate

 

[PatsBoy12]

You mean after a few preseason games?

I didn't know there was a Watson debate

Come to think of it, neither did I. Either way, Gronkowski and Hernandez haven't played a single down in the regular season, so if there is a debate, I don't think we can end it just yet.

 

[Kontradiction]

I cant wait to end the Maroney debate.

So you're hoping Maroney fails this year? :bricks:

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Still way too early. Watson showed several flashes early on too. Even in 2004 when he only played one game against the Colts he made some good plays. Kept showing these flashes but never really broke out. Until one of these guys has that great season they haven't done anything Watson hasn't done.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Watson was a good player whose hands were questionable enough that he never quite earned Brady's trust. Gronk, imo, will be a significantly better player. Dunno why it has to be an either/or.

 

[efin98]

So you're hoping Maroney fails this year? :bricks:

Or he could hope that Maroney shuts up his critics...

 

[Kontradiction]

Watson was a good player whose hands were questionable enough that he never quite earned Brady's trust. Gronk, imo, will be a significantly better player. Dunno why it has to be an either/or.

Watson's production in this offense and his growth with Brady also kept getting derailed by injuries. I'm praying that this doesn't happen with Gronk and/or Hernandez. They will be essential in the red zone this season.

 

[zoostation]

Sorry, I've seen enough. I've been drooling for a solid tight end for years.

I have been drooling over JLo's tight end for years.

Google Image Result for http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/latinoimages/jlo.jpg

 

[bucky]

The argument for years was that Watson is a great player in the wrong system

Whoever said that? Watson is a great athlete with great intangibles. But he's obviously not a "great player". I don't think there was ever any debate about that. He's an above average all-around TE. He just never lived up to the potential offered by his other qualities.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Okay I guess there is no debate then. I guess my point is Watson is not very good. I disagree that he is even above average. Over a five year sample pool, with a hall of fame quarterback and two all-world receivers giving defenses fits, it's hard to imagine a good tight end averaging 2.6 catches and 29 yards per game and being "average." Last year, with the Moss/Welker syndrome from Brady, you had to wonder why Watson could not be the third legitimate target as a five year vet.

Athleticism? Check. Never any doubt about that, as that's why he was a first round pick.I always held my breath when the ball was thrown towards him if there was a defender within a few yards. It would either be bobbled, dropped, tipped, or in some rare cases, caught, but almost never caught if it didn't hit him directly in the numbers. It seemed like it was always "almost" but never actually completed. Kind of the story of his career in the New England.

The few passes thrown to these new rookies have been quite the opposite. These guys make plays. If the ball isn't directly on target, they adjust. If the ball if more of an "up for grabs" situation, they come down with it. These are intangibles that Watson never had, and it frustrated the heck out of me for years.

Anyway, feel free to look at my threads to back this up, but I'm not the type to dump on players who leave the team. In this case, I really have to say good riddance. The Browns (I correct myself for saying Seahawks originally) made one of the under-the-radar worst value signings of the offseaon in paying him $4M per year. There are dozens of tight ends who offer a better all-around package than this guy.

Tom Brady makes players better, and it's a proven fact. I expect Watson's numbers to decline closer to 1.5 catches and about 15 yards per game. Let's see.

PS. I wasn't happy about the Dave Thomas trade and felt he was the better tight end of the two. His success in NO does not surprise me that much.

Last point: Of all the Patriots huge games in the last five years, where are Watson's signature moments? When did he step up in big games, and was there any time when it seemed the offense could rely upon him to carry them in any way whatsoever. Shotgun sets with 4 WR sets on 3rd and 3 are telling. Watson's best highlight to remember involved chasing down Champ Bailey vs. Denver in '05, and impressive athletic feat, and admirable hustle, but it's not good when your highlight comes from the defensive side of the ball and you are a tight end in a pass-first system. I can't really think of many highlights besides that one.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Okay I guess there is no debate then. I guess my point is Watson is not very good. I disagree that he is even above average. Over a five year sample pool, with a hall of fame quarterback and two all-world receivers giving defenses fits, it's hard to imagine a good tight end averaging 2.6 catches and 29 yards per game and being "average." Last year, with the Moss/Welker syndrome from Brady, you had to wonder why Watson could not be the third legitimate target as a five year vet.

Athleticism? Check. Never any doubt about that, as that's why he was a first round pick.I always held my breath when the ball was thrown towards him. It would either be bobbled, dropped, tipped, or in some rare cases, caught, but almost never caught if it didn't hit him directly in the numbers. It seemed like it was always "almost" but never actually completed. Kind of the story of his career in the New England.

The few passes thrown to these new rookies have been quite the opposite. These guys make plays. If the ball isn't directly on target, they adjust. If the ball if more of an "up for grabs" situation, they come down with it. These are intangibles that Watson never had, and it frustrated the heck out of me for years.

Agreed. Watson was more of an athlete than a football player. He never developed into a reliable target that Brady could depend on. There's a reason why Welker took away targets from Watson once he arrived in New England - you could count on him to make the tough catches, make plays, and NOT cough up the football.

Whoever said Watson had great intangibles is either delusional or didn't watch the games very closely. Watson was never better than average, either in the blocking or catching department. And his athleticism helped but never got him over the hump. Honestly, I think he lacked instincts for the position. With his physical abilities, he should have dominated the linebackers and safeties lined up against him. That never happened.

For once I am glad that BB spent a couple of high draft picks on tight ends. We needed more production out of the position and I think we got a couple of good young ones out of this year's draft in Gronk and Hernandez.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Last point: Of all the Patriots huge games in the last five years, where are Watson's signature moments? When did he step up in big games, and was there any time when it seemed the offense could rely upon him to carry them in any way whatsoever. Shotgun sets with 4 WR sets on 3rd and 3 are telling. Watson's best highlight to remember involved chasing down Champ Bailey vs. Denver in '05, and impressive athletic feat, and admirable hustle, but it's not good when your highlight comes from the defensive side of the ball and you are a tight end in a pass-first system. I can't really think of many highlights besides that one.

There was the Monday night Baltimore game in 07 where sexy rexy called the timeout that gave us a second chance.

 

[PlainOldEd]

I have been drooling over JLo's tight end for years.

Google Image Result for http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/latinoimages/jlo.jpg

I would say JLo is more of a "fullback" than a "tight end". Either way, I think she'd be fine in the slot.

 

[PlainOldEd]

apparently the answer to the original question is 'yes'.