Can someone tell me why they want to keep Thomas at OLB???

[DaBruinz]

Briz -
For you to EFFECTIVELY use the "tackles" argument (solo OR total doesn't matter), you have to compare the defenses as well.

The 49ers - (1078 total defensive plays) 346 total yards per game. 118.5 yards per game against the rush

The Jets - (1016 total defenisve plays) 331.9 yards per game. 134.8 yards per game against the rush

The Steelers - (933 total defensive plays) 266.5 total yards per game. 89.9 yards per game against the rush

The Chargers - (1013 total defensive plays) 320.2 total yards per game. 107 yards per game against the rush

The Patriots (933 total defenisve plays) 288.3 total yards per game. 98.2 yards against the rush.


The Steelers and Pats have great defensive lines. Jamaal Williams and the Chargers D-line wasn't great to start the season. The Jets and 49errs lines were horrible. So is it really ANY wonder that players like Willis and Harris have HIGHER tackle totals? Particularly when looking at the horrible defenses they were on?

 

[ALP]

look, AD's natural position IS on the outside....

and vrabel is excellent, but no matter what, if your front 7 only has ONE guy pressuring the QB, that one guy is NOT going to be successful...

now if you have AD rushing from one side and vrabel rushing from the other, then we have QB pressure....but that requires AD to actually RUSH the passer, instead of drop back

and to fix that we need a fast ILB, so that THEY can play cover, and allow AD to rush....

hence we move AD to the outside, and draft or get a fast ILB, and our biggest problems are resolved...

but i agree, my draft has us taking an OLB, and ILB, and CB's in the first round...

b/c we need both, and OLB and a couple of ILB's as well

 

[DaBruinz]

your point is irrelavent and not the reason Thomas' solo tackles are so low, and im not going to argue on it cause its pointless, you believe what you want and there is no changing your mind.

WOW. You truly are totally ignorant, Briz. I let the FACTS do the talking. YOU just pull sh!t out of thin air. YOU are the one whose mind won't be changed on this. Regardless of what facts are shown to you.

My point is TOTALLY relevent and is PART of the reason that Thomas' tackles were low. But, again, its your own ignorance that keeps you from seeing the truth.

 

[BRiZ]

Briz -
For you to EFFECTIVELY use the "tackles" argument (solo OR total doesn't matter), you have to compare the defenses as well.

The 49ers - (1078 total defensive plays) 346 total yards per game. 118.5 yards per game against the rush

The Jets - (1016 total defenisve plays) 331.9 yards per game. 134.8 yards per game against the rush

The Steelers - (933 total defensive plays) 266.5 total yards per game. 89.9 yards per game against the rush

The Chargers - (1013 total defensive plays) 320.2 total yards per game. 107 yards per game against the rush

The Patriots (933 total defenisve plays) 288.3 total yards per game. 98.2 yards against the rush.


The Steelers and Pats have great defensive lines. Jamaal Williams and the Chargers D-line wasn't great to start the season. The Jets and 49errs lines were horrible. So is it really ANY wonder that players like Willis and Harris have HIGHER tackle totals? Particularly when looking at the horrible defenses they were on?

yea thats the reason <rolls eyes>, doesnt have anything to do with the fact that Thomas is a OUTSIDE LINEBACKER playing on the inside poorly (due to his average change of direction). Read it again maybe it will sink in this time.

 

[Rob0729]

He moves well for a guy his size and his straight-line speed is excellent. His change of direction is average though and not close to on par with elite inside linebackers.

Solo tackles:

week 1 Thomas 1, Willis 9, Harris DNS
week 2 Thomas 1, Willis 5, Harris DNS
week 3 Thomas 7, Willis 5, Harris DNS
week 4 Thomas 3, Willis 10, Harris DNS
week 5 Thomas 5, Willis 6, Harris DNS
week 6 Thomas 1, --BYE--, Harris DNS
week 7 Thomas 7, Willis 11, Harris DNS
week 8 Thomas 1, Willis 6, Harris 10
week 9 Thomas 2, Willis 7, Harris 20
week10 --BYE---, Willis 5, --BYE--
week11 Thomas 2, Willis 3, Harris 7

*started to play OLB
week12 Thomas 6, Willis 16, Harris 6
week13 Thomas 3, Willis 17, Harris 8
week14 Thomas 3, Willis 6, Harris 5
week15 Thomas 8, Willis 5, Harris 6
week16 Thomas 6, Willis 12, Harris 4
week17 Thomas 1, Willis 12, Harris 9

The Pats led the league in fewest rushing attempts against with 360. The Jets had the second most rushing attempts against with 517 and the 49ers were right after them with 504. Considering ILBs get most of their tackles against the run, Willis and Harris had far more opportunity to make tackles.

Also, where were the tackles made. Tackles can be deceiving especially if an ILB gets a lot of tackles over 5 yards past the line of scrimmage especially on running plays. That may pad his stats, but in reality, is not what I would consider quality tackles.

 

[DaBruinz]

yea thats the reason <rolls eyes>, doesnt have anything to do with the fact that Thomas is a OUTSIDE LINEBACKER playing on the inside poorly (due to his average change of direction). Read it again maybe it will sink in this time.

WOW. You just are too stupid for your own good. Thomas doesn't have "average change of direction". He wouldn't be able to line up at friggin CB if he had average change of direction. He wouldn't be able to line up at MLB if he had average change of direction. Those are two positions that he took snaps at while with the Ravens. He was used ALL over the place, NOT just at OLB. Its plain IGNORANCE on your part that the FACTS are shown to you and you ignore them.

You are shown that the two players you are harping on played on two of the worst defenses in the league. That they took MORE SNAPS at ILB than Thomas did and that their defensive lines were pathetic. Yet, you still cling to this idea that your tackles argument has some validity.

Your whole hypothesis is based on your piss poor talent evaluation skills. Not on any REAL facts.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats led the league in fewest rushing attempts against with 360. The Jets had the second most rushing attempts against with 517 and the 49ers were right after them with 504. Considering ILBs get most of their tackles against the run, Willis and Harris had far more opportunity to make tackles.

Also, where were the tackles made. Tackles can be deceiving especially if an ILB gets a lot of tackles over 5 yards past the line of scrimmage especially on running plays. That may pad his stats, but in reality, is not what I would consider quality tackles.

That is my premise for why Briz's "comparison" is ignorant, at best. Its clear that the jets and 49ers ran significantly more defensive plays. That, immediately, gives both Harris and Willis that many more chances to increase their stats. But, that is clearly lost on Briz.

 

[BRiZ]

WOW. You just are too stupid for your own good. Thomas doesn't have "average change of direction". He wouldn't be able to line up at friggin CB if he had average change of direction. He wouldn't be able to line up at MLB if he had average change of direction. Those are two positions that he took snaps at while with the Ravens. He was used ALL over the place, NOT just at OLB. Its plain IGNORANCE on your part that the FACTS are shown to you and you ignore them.

You are shown that the two players you are harping on played on two of the worst defenses in the league. That they took MORE SNAPS at ILB than Thomas did and that their defensive lines were pathetic. Yet, you still cling to this idea that your tackles argument has some validity.

Your whole hypothesis is based on your piss poor talent evaluation skills. Not on any REAL facts.

lol yea i would really like to see Thomas play CB that would be hilarious, he would play a few series before being benched.

Thomas has above average speed, agility, and change of direction -for a man his size-. Compared to -real- inside linebackers yes it is average, he is not an inside linebacker, he cannot change directions as fast as real inside linebackers, he is an OLB.

Yea my talent evaluations are piss poor thats why i picked out Antoinio Cromartie and Hester a few drafts ago and said to take them, picked out Meriweather in January before everyone even new who he was, and was the first to say take DRC this year. Yea i have no skills. What you have is poor arguing skills.

 

[BRiZ]

That is my premise for why Briz's "comparison" is ignorant, at best. Its clear that the jets and 49ers ran significantly more defensive plays. That, immediately, gives both Harris and Willis that many more chances to increase their stats. But, that is clearly lost on Briz.

dude you can take any linebacker on any team in the league and Thomas' solo tackles will be lower. I just used Willis and Harris cause they are elite and what i would want out of my inside linebacker.

 

[DaBruinz]

James Farrior - 16 games - 94 tackles - 64 solo - 4 solo tackles per game.
Larry Foote - 16 games - 81 tackles - 44 solo - 2.75 solo tackles per game
Steven Cooper - 16 games - 108 tackles - 73 solo - 4.56 solo tackles per game
Matt Wilhelm - 16 games - 97 tackles - 74 solo - 4.62 solo tackles per game
Tedi Bruschi - 16 games - 99 tackles - 64 solo - 4 solo tackles per game
Bradie James - 16 games - 101 tackles - 64 solo - 4 solo tackles per game
Akin Ayodele - 16 games - 57 tackles - 37 solo - 2.31 solo tackles per game
Eric Barton - 16 games - 73 tackles - 47 solo - 2.94 solo tackles per game
Andra Davis - 16 games - 67 tackles - 51 solo - 3.19 solo tackles per game
D'Qwell Jackson - 14 games - 101 tackles - 75 solo - 5.35 tackles per game
Derek Smith - 15 games - 78 tackles - 50 solo - 3.33 solo tackles per game
Junior Seau - 16 games - 74 tackles - 58 solo - 3.63 solo tackles per game

Adalius Thomas - 11 games inside - 49 total - 36 solo - 3.3 solo tackles per game.

 

[Deus Irae]

dude you can take any linebacker on any team in the league and Thomas' solo tackles will be lower. I just used Willis and Harris cause they are elite and what i would want out of my inside linebacker.

But your arguments have been unpersuasive, and I'm not one who was thrilled with Thomas inside, or outside, last season. Solo tackles are by no means the entire story. However, just for comparison, take a look at Pittsburgh, since they're another 3-4 team. Thomas had 58 solo tackles even with his ankle hampering him (The ankle is why I'm not worried about what I thought was a disappointing first year for him, as I expect him to play much better this season).

James Farrior: 66 solo
Larry Foote: 43 solo
James Harrison: 76 solo
Clark Haggans: 37 solo

Foote and Farrior are listed as the starting ILB's at NFL.com, with Harrison and Haggans on the outside.

 

[DaBruinz]

dude you can take any linebacker on any team in the league and Thomas' solo tackles will be lower. I just used Willis and Harris cause they are elite and what i would want out of my inside linebacker.

No, actually, you can't idiot. I proved that to you before and I just did it again.

You used Willis and Harris because they played on garbage defenses and had HIGH tackle totals and are NOT the norm and would "support" your flawed idiocy. Not because they are reality. You ignore pertinent facts like you always do when you're shown how flawed your thinking is. You ignore that Willis spent plenty of time as a MLB and therefore, his numbers are higher. If you look around the league, MLBs generally have over 110 tackles.

What you WANT isn't reality. Neither Willis nor Harris are considered ELITE yet. They are considered to be good players on junk defenses who made plenty of tackles well beyond the line of scrimmage. The fact that the defensive lines in front of them are garbage certainly helps their tackle numbers look good.

 

[DaBruinz]

lol yea i would really like to see Thomas play CB that would be hilarious, he would play a few series before being benched.

Thomas has above average speed, agility, and change of direction -for a man his size-. Compared to -real- inside linebackers yes it is average, he is not an inside linebacker, he cannot change directions as fast as real inside linebackers, he is an OLB.

Yea my talent evaluations are piss poor thats why i picked out Antoinio Cromartie and Hester a few drafts ago and said to take them, picked out Meriweather in January before everyone even new who is was, and was the first to say take DRC this year. Yea i have no skills. What you have is poor arguing skills.

You wouldn't know a real inside linebacker if he tackled you 165 times.

Also, even blind idiots find a well sometimes. You picking Cromartie or Hester (who you said would be a great WR and CB, not just a great return man, that's turned out to be true, hasn't it.. Oh.. wait.. no.. ) hardly qualifies you as having good talent evaluation.

You talk about my arguing skills, yet you are the one who ignores the facts and returns to arguments you were obliterated on a month ago. You were shown then to be a fool for making the comparisons you did. And you've been shown to be a fool again.

 

[RayClay]

No, actually, you can't idiot. I proved that to you before and I just did it again.

You used Willis and Harris because they played on garbage defenses and had HIGH tackle totals and are NOT the norm and would "support" your flawed idiocy. Not because they are reality. You ignore pertinent facts like you always do when you're shown how flawed your thinking is. You ignore that Willis spent plenty of time as a MLB and therefore, his numbers are higher. If you look around the league, MLBs generally have over 110 tackles.

What you WANT isn't reality. Neither Willis nor Harris are considered ELITE yet. They are considered to be good players on junk defenses who made plenty of tackles well beyond the line of scrimmage. The fact that the defensive lines in front of them are garbage certainly helps their tackle numbers look good.

Having to constantly call people idiots makes your arguments seem lacking.

Of course,I also think it's against forum policy, but that seems to be relative to certain posters.

 

[DaBruinz]

Having to constantly call people idiots makes your arguments seem lacking.

Of course,I also think it's against forum policy, but that seems to be relative to certain posters.

I only call people idiots when they clearly show themselves to be one. Briz has constantly shown that for years going back on the ESPN message board. Particularly with ridiulous and idiotic arguments like he's presented here.

 

[RayClay]

I only call people idiots when they clearly show themselves to be one. Briz has constantly shown that for years going back on the ESPN message board. Particularly with ridiulous and idiotic arguments like he's presented here.

I believe (could be wrong) that personal attacks are a no no.

I understand how you feel, but when I feel the person I'm arguing with is clearly an idiot, I stop posting.

Why would I want to argue with an idiot?

I'm just saying it's noticeable and if the argument's worth having why have it spiral off into a meaningless back and forth?

I think this is a good argument with merit on both sides (the argument, not posters, I'm not getting in to that).

 

[DaBruinz]

I believe (could be wrong) that personal attacks are a no no.

I understand how you feel, but when I feel the person I'm arguing with is clearly an idiot, I stop posting.

Why would I want to argue with an idiot?

I'm just saying it's noticeable and if the argument's worth having why have it spiral off into a meaningless back and forth?

I think this is a good argument with merit on both sides (the argument, not posters, I'm not getting in to that).

I believe that the times that the mods step in is when you take it up a notch into the vulgarity realm and true personal insults that involve someone other than the poster. Most people know that there are rules that need to be strictly followed and rules that have grey areas. I have been warned when I've taken beyond the grey areas. Its no different than the rules at your office place or that you have for your kids. There are rules that have NO leeway and some that do.

As for whether his argument has merit, that's debateable in and of itself. Its certainly not supported by the facts as he's presented them.

 

[BRiZ]

I only call people idiots when they clearly show themselves to be one. Briz has constantly shown that for years going back on the ESPN message board. Particularly with ridiulous and idiotic arguments like he's presented here.

you're the neanderthal.

SOLO TACKLES

1 Patrick Willis SF ILB 135
2 Jon Beason CAR MLB 106
2 D.J. Williams DEN MLB 106
4 Nick Barnett GB MLB 102
5 London Fletcher WAS MLB 100
6 DeMeco Ryans HOU MLB 99
7 Ernie Sims DET OLB 97
8 Kirk Morrison OAK MLB 96
9 E.J. Henderson MIN MLB 94
10 Michael Boley ATL OLB 93
10 David Thornton TEN OLB 93
12 Brian Urlacher CHI MLB 92
12 Will Witherspoon STL MLB 92
14 Morlon Greenwood HOU OLB 90
14 David Harris NYJ ILB 90
16 Paris Lenon DET MLB 88
17 Gary Brackett IND MLB 86
17 Angelo Crowell BUF OLB 86
17 John DiGiorgio BUF MLB 86
20 Donnie Edwards KC OLB 85
21 Keith Brooking ATL MLB 84
21 Derrick Brooks TB OLB 84
23 Lance Briggs CHI OLB 83
23 Derrick Johnson KC OLB 83
23 Barrett Ruud TB MLB 83
23 Lofa Tatupu SEA MLB 83
27 Napoleon Harris KC MLB 82
27 Gerald Hayes ARI MLB 82
27 Ray Lewis BAL ILB 82
30 Calvin Pace ARI OLB 80
31 Chad Greenway MIN OLB 78
31 A.J. Hawk GB OLB 105
33 Karlos Dansby ARI OLB 77
33 Scott Fujita NO OLB 77
33 Thomas Howard OAK OLB 77
33 Antonio Pierce NYG MLB 77
37 James Harrison PIT OLB 76
38 D'Qwell Jackson CLE ILB 75
39 Matt Wilhelm SD ILB 74
40 Stephen Cooper SD ILB 73
41 Thomas Davis CAR OLB 72
42 Landon Johnson CIN OLB 71
43 Omar Gaither PHI MLB 69
44 Keith Bulluck TEN OLB 68
44 Rocky McIntosh WAS OLB 68
46 Nate Webster DEN OLB 67
47 Hunter Hillenmeyer CHI OLB 65
48 Tedy Bruschi NE ILB 64
48 James Farrior PIT ILB 64
48 Bradie James DAL ILB 64
48 Freddie Keiaho IND OLB 64
48 Takeo Spikes PHI OLB 64
53 Julian Peterson SEA OLB 63
53 Leon Williams CLE ILB 63
53 Demorrio Williams ATL OLB 63
56 Bart Scott BAL ILB 62
57 Channing Crowder MIA MLB 61
57 Ian Gold DEN OLB 61
59 Mike Peterson JAC MLB 60
59 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 60
61 Leroy Hill SEA OLB 58
61 Dhani Jones CIN OLB 58
61 Junior Seau NE ILB 58
64 Adalius Thomas NE ILB 57

Not to mention this is for a full 16 games and includes Thomas' solo tackles when he played the last 5 or so games on the outside as well, he would be even -further- down this list had he stayed inside since his production went -up- when he moved outside. There is barely any starting linebacker in the NFL that had less solo tackles than Thomas inside. If you are happy with scrub production and are satisfied with comparing him to scrubs and not elite linebackers like Willis etc knock your socks off. My standards are a little higher.

 

[RayClay]

I believe that the times that the mods step in is when you take it up a notch into the vulgarity realm and true personal insults that involve someone other than the poster. Most people know that there are rules that need to be strictly followed and rules that have grey areas. I have been warned when I've taken beyond the grey areas. Its no different than the rules at your office place or that you have for your kids. There are rules that have NO leeway and some that do.

As for whether his argument has merit, that's debateable in and of itself. Its certainly not supported by the facts as he's presented them.

Just my impression, I think it's questionable how best to use Thomas.

I personally don't see him as an outstanding ILB and we paid for an outstanding player.

I'd like to see him in more of a McGinest hybrid role myself.

 

[BRiZ]

You wouldn't know a real inside linebacker if he tackled you 165 times.

Also, even blind idiots find a well sometimes. You picking Cromartie or Hester (who you said would be a great WR and CB, not just a great return man, that's turned out to be true, hasn't it.. Oh.. wait.. no.. ) hardly qualifies you as having good talent evaluation.

You talk about my arguing skills, yet you are the one who ignores the facts and returns to arguments you were obliterated on a month ago. You were shown then to be a fool for making the comparisons you did. And you've been shown to be a fool again.

try more like "knowing what your talking about". I nailed Cromartie, Hester, Meriweather, and probably DRC. What have you said other than spewing garbage?

Hester would make a good slot WR in our offense imo its not his fault Chicago's QB and offense is ******ed. Not to mention i said he would solidfy our return game, hes only gone on to be a kick return god. I said to draft Antonio Cromartie and trade up to the top of the second round and draft Hester and was laughed at by morons like you. Wouldnt it be nice to have Cromartie and Hester right about now?

Your facts are irrelevant they arent the reason Thomas plays poorly inside thats why they are dismissed.