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Can someone tell me why they want to keep Thomas at OLB???

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SeanBruschi54, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I mean really. The guy was great for us last year when he was in the middle. When Colvin went down you saw him involved in games more but the team suffered tremendously. His presence in the inside was so significant that most people didn't realize he was a factor at all.

    I hope HOPE! We draft a Gholston or Long or some outside rush terror so that we can keep Thomas on the inside hes more valuable there than any other position.
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I keep pointing out that Vrabel had 9.5 sacks with Colvin in and 3 sacks without him - and all 3 sacks came in one game against Miami.

    We missed Colvin and we'll miss him again if the plan is to go with what we went with after Colvin got hurt.
  3. Rob0729

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    Well, it is far from guaranteed that Thomas will play outside. We still could bring in Haggans or even Colvin back if he is healthy. Gholston is shooting up the board and there is even talks that Miami could take him over Chris Long. I think if Long somehow drops to five, the Pats have to consider trading up to jump over the Jets to take him. I don't know if they will. I still think Miami's interest in Gholston is more information gathering than serious interest at this point. But if Long is in striking distance, it will be tough to pass up.
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AD would have been a bigger factor had he not been dropping into coverage all the time because Seau and Bruschi are too slow. This team needs a pass rusher and vrabel is not that guy ... he just chalks up sacks against weak teams. AD has great value to this team getting after the QB ... give us some youth at ILB and AD will destroy QB's this year.
  5. Rob0729

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    The thing is Vrabel was better than his sacks stats indicated after Colvin went down. His best game of the year was against the Steelers (IMHO) and he didn't register a sack in the game eventhough he almost single-handily shut down Roethlisberger.

    Again, the question is how much did we miss Colvin or how much did the fact that we had to move two players out of position (Thomas and Bruschi) and as two rotational guys to be full time starters (Bruschi and Seau). I think Colvin can be replaced.

    I think with what we had last year, if we lost either Vrabel or Colvin we were in some trouble because it would still ask three out of the four LBs to play out of position and/or play a full time role when they are best suited for a part-time role. Granted right now we are in worse shape until we fill in some holes.
  6. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I dont care who it is the Patriots will not trade up for anyone they're either picking at 7 or going lower.
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't know that for sure. The Pats typically don't trade up, but they have in the past like when they traded up to get Graham.
  8. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    They needed a TE and they had him targeted and the only way to get him was to move up into the 20's.

    I could use a similar argument against you and say they didnt trade up for Wilfork. They let him fall if he was going to fall.
  9. BRiZ

    BRiZ Rookie

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    i hope you are joking right? Thomas was horrible last year inside, your inside backer needs to make more than one solo tackle a game, his only good game was against SD the rest were aweful. Hes a probowler on the outside.
  10. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Finally someone who agrees with the outisde argument. Please explain why you think he is better on the outside.
  11. BRiZ

    BRiZ Rookie

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    Because he doesnt have the change of direction to play inside, hes a big guy and it takes him a moment to stop and start and move side to side, once he gets going though he is fast. Your inside backer needs to have great agility and change of direction to tackle RBs all over the field, and Thomas just doesnt have that. As a result he gets to the RB late, if you look at his solo tackles while playing inside they are terrible compared to other linebackers in the league. He is much better on the outside edge rushing and crushing the QB it fits his skillset better. He plays on a probowl level on the outside, did you see him in the SB??
  12. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    One of Thomas strongest traits/attributes is his speed and his mobility. The guy played safety for the Ravens the year before we signed him. The guy has immense mobility.

    What RB's are you talking about? He killed Tomlinson and Westbrook maybe the best two RB/ catching RB's in the league. He shut them both out.

    In the Super Bowl he played great. But i hope you also noticed when he wasnt blitzing that he was in coverage far more. Dont believe me? Check the tape. The guy was covering guys left and right.

    Thomas is probably our most agile defensive player.
  13. Rob0729

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    Not saying the Pats will trade up, but don't be shocked if they do trade up two spots if the player they want is there.

    I don't know if the Pats really were all that hot on Wilfork. I am sure he was very high on their board, but I don't know if they felt he was a must get if he drops close to him. They felt Graham was obviously.

    Belichick has always loved Ed Reed even before he was drafted, I bet he would have traded up to get him if he was in tradable distance.

    I have no idea if the Pats are even willing to break from tradition and draft a LB early or even think Long or Gholston are worth it to draft that high. I just think it is tempting to trade up if Long actually dropped to 5. Belichick and Pioli may or may not agree.
  14. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    The problem isnt really in trading up. Its the money and slot positioning of drafting a player at 5 that really kills teams.

    This is last years 5th player and what it costs to draft him

    Levi Brown : The six-year contract could be worth up to $62 million, just over $18 million of it guaranteed.

    Every year the price goes up. So expect 65 million and 19 - 20 million guaranteed
  15. BRiZ

    BRiZ Rookie

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    He moves well for a guy his size and his straight-line speed is excellent. His change of direction is average though and not close to on par with elite inside linebackers.

    Solo tackles:

    week 1 Thomas 1, Willis 9, Harris DNS
    week 2 Thomas 1, Willis 5, Harris DNS
    week 3 Thomas 7, Willis 5, Harris DNS
    week 4 Thomas 3, Willis 10, Harris DNS
    week 5 Thomas 5, Willis 6, Harris DNS
    week 6 Thomas 1, --BYE--, Harris DNS
    week 7 Thomas 7, Willis 11, Harris DNS
    week 8 Thomas 1, Willis 6, Harris 10
    week 9 Thomas 2, Willis 7, Harris 20
    week10 --BYE---, Willis 5, --BYE--
    week11 Thomas 2, Willis 3, Harris 7

    *started to play OLB
    week12 Thomas 6, Willis 16, Harris 6
    week13 Thomas 3, Willis 17, Harris 8
    week14 Thomas 3, Willis 6, Harris 5
    week15 Thomas 8, Willis 5, Harris 6
    week16 Thomas 6, Willis 12, Harris 4
    week17 Thomas 1, Willis 12, Harris 9
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey


    You attempted to use the tackle argument previously and were shown to be an imbecile on it. You were shown that, while Thomas was on the low end, he was within a tackle of a majority of the other 3-4 ILBs. Yet, you claimed, like an imbecile, that it supported your argument when it didn't.

    In fact, when it was pointed out to you that WILLIS was potentially in on 160 more plays than Thomas, you ignored it. When it was pointed out to you that Harris was in on more plays than Thomas, you ignored it.

    When you compare Thomas to other 3-4 ILBs, he did FINE.
  17. BRiZ

    BRiZ Rookie

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    yes that is all he is is -fine- on the inside. I want elite, i want more production than a couple of solo tackles a game. He beasts QBs on the outside and is boarderline elite out there, keep him there. Find a real inside linebacker.

    And no i didnt ignore your points about more plays. That isnt the reason his numbers are lower. Its because of his change of direction is not on par with inside linebackers.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  18. DaBruinz

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    #50 Jersey

    Listen, Would you STOP using Willis and Harris as comparisons? Or are you too much of an idiot? The 49ers defense played 160 more defense plays than the Pats. The Jets were about 100 more than the Pats. Also, Willis played quite a bit in the 4-3. Not to mention that bot the Jets and 49er defenses were HORRIBLE.

    You keep putting up tackle numbers and its not a true basis for comparison. And you damn well know it, Briz. Hell, its laughable that you include the 5 weeks that Thomas played at OLB in your comparison and act as if its comparable when its not.

    Your talent evaluation is horrible and you are being purposely ignorant regarding the stats.

    How about you pull up the comparison I did? Or are you afraid to because it shows you to be WRONG.
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Please zip it. Your argument is flimsy and filled with ignorance. You compared apples to cherrys and act like its a fair comparison because they are both red. It doesn't work like that. You pathetically attempted to use this argument previously and I schooled you on it then.

    OH. AND btw, It was Thomas' first year in the Pats 3-4 on a defense that played 100-160 less snaps than most of the other LBs you have attempted to compare him to.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  20. BRiZ

    BRiZ Rookie

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    your point is irrelavent and not the reason Thomas' solo tackles are so low, and im not going to argue on it cause its pointless, you believe what you want and there is no changing your mind.
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