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Can Guyton beat out Izzo for the ST demon spot on the roster?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ochmed Jones, Jul 31, 2008.

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  1. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Izzo is a one trick pony and has been around a long time.

    Is this the year someone takes his roster spot?
  2. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    This was talked about before and I don't think Izzo is going anywhere being he's the captain of ST. There's no one else who is really worthy of that spot.
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't see Guyton as a rookie replacing Izzo. They will still need veteran prescense on special teams. If it comes down to Aiken and Izzo for a roster spot, Aiken could possibly beat Izzo out. But my money would still be on Izzo making the roster at this point.
  4. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    He isn't the captain of the ST right now, they haven't voted on that yet.

    Washington? Evans? Woods, even. There are plenty of players who can fill in as captain of special teams. Even a newcomer (Aiken, maybe, assuming he makes the roster. After all, Rodney was voted a captain his first year on the team).

    On top of being a one-trick-pony, he's in decline and has been passed over as the top special teamer. I'd say by at least two players.

    This may mean nothing, but they've also been experimenting with other players as the punt "protector." I think Izzo's fighting for a spot.
  5. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Nope, they just signed him again and he has been doing a good job so it hard .
  6. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Izzo is still an all-star caliber S/Ter, BB loves him and NO. He is an incredibly valuable player on this team and BB doesn't underestimate special teams, like some seem to.
  7. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Izzo's production the past 2 years has been down significantly, and there are a LOT of ST standouts on the current roster. As others have mentioned, Washington, Evans and even Aiken are possibilities for the captain role. I think Izzo is definitely at risk this year.

    But I see a problem.

    Ochmed, you're penciling in Guyton for Izzo's spot. Another thread discussed how Aiken has been taking Izzo's traditional on-field role in practices, and has proposed Aiken taking his roster spot. Others are bumping off Izzo to make room for Heath Evans, or for Pierre Woods.

    There is only one Izzo to cut. :)

    paging Eric Alexander...
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    I think that the special teams battle may be one of the most interesting. I find that positive because:

    a) I would like to see the special teams unit become game-changers (think Buffalo)...and I think they have the talent to do that.

    b) It is nice to have enough talent/depth to be able to have folks really earn their way onto special teams...not just filling out out the roster with guys who think special teams is a necessary evil to earn a "real" role.

    I looked back at the "Camp Battles: Special Teams" and I'm second-guessing a lot of what I wrote. Hated to cut Aiken and really wanted to give Ruud a chance on ST. But someone else would have to go...and now that you won't let us cut Izzo multiple times, it is really hard.
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :p

    With the emphasis being placed on training up Williams as a coverage LB, I think Alexander's position is particularly tenuous. This is his RFA year, and if one of the low-picked LBs shows well (as Guyton has so far), they could well make the decision with an eye to the future.
  10. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    Its hard to imagine that a WR body is better suited for ST more than a LBs. Izzo may be at risk, and I would like to see Woods concentrate on ST now that his OLB spot might be Crable's. But back to ST, Guyton is interesting, but he should have to show as much upside at LB as Woods(hopefully more). It would also mean that our LB corp would go from the oldest to ALOT younger with 3/8 rookies....very hard to imagine. I do see Guyton/Redd/Ruud losers on the PS though.....
  11. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I see at least one or two of these players on the Jets 53 man roster.
  12. jczxohn1

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    As capt of the ST, it appears to me Izzo's role on KO coverage is to be the last contain guy in the center. His numbers may be down, but, IMO, its because the gunners are performing better. If they missed last yr, he was usually in position to make the stick. ST is so much better than the days of Chatham and Davis, aka the Holding Co., I don't see BB changing it.
    Also, I agree, Alexander should be looking over his shoulder.
  13. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you on Alexander...

    I also feel for Izzo to go, it will take a lot. I would rather have the guy we know gets the job done (an AllPro ST'er) than a young guy with potential for 2008.
  14. Box_O_Rocks

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    Guyton is very promising, as a reserve linebacker/ST player. I'm sure BB has some idea who might fill Izzo's leadership role, so from that standpoint keeping Guyton and releasing Izzo is a non-factor (for everyone but Larry).

    There won't be any shortage of linebackers for Special Teams if Izzo is released: Alexander, Woods, Mayo, Guyton, and Crable are all candidates not projected to starting roles yet.

    They can also use a TE in the various ST's role to get the "size" they need, so Thomas, Watson, and Spach are good candidates.

    Washington, Aiken, and Jackson offer size and speed as WRs, they are only 13 lbs lighter, and being taller probably have longer arms for fending off blockers.

    Tank Williams is Izzo's size, Harrison may get fewer STs reps to save his older legs, but Sanders and Meriweather are young enough to play two-way.

    Lamont Jordan, Sammy Morris, Heath Evans - for that matter Gutierrez and O'Connell all offer size and speed.

    Looking beyond the Aiken/Izzo comparison to a wider array of player options suggests Larry is in a dog fight for a roster slot. If BB is leaning towards releasing him look for it to be earlier rather than later.
  15. AzPatsFan

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    No Guyton won't beat out Izzo. Woods or Aiken will. Guyton will take Alexander's job. As a ILB and as a ST contributor.

    I see the LB corp being AD, Vrabel outside and Bruschi, Mayo inside. backed up be Crabel and Woods outside and Hobson Guyton and Tank inside.

    The best coverage ST on the Team are Woods, Aiken, Kelly, Slater, Evans, Guyton, Crabel will contribute as well as Tank, Willhite, Jackson, and Wright.

    Kick Returners are Hobbs, Slater, Jackson.

    Punt Returners are Wes, Kevin and Slater
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    How can you call Crable, Slater, Wilhite and Guyton "the best coverage ST on the team"? Have you seen them play this season yet?
  17. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have 6 players that will make the team because of their special teams contribution and the fact that they can play another position Evans, Aiken, Guyton, Woods, Washington, and Slater.

    Izzo WAS a Pro Bowl Special Teamer. He isn't anymore. Woods led the ST in tackles. Izzo is too small to play ILB. He is 5' 10" 238 and ran at best a 4.6 when he started his career. Guyton is 6'3" 242 and runs a sub 4.5 (thats faster than nearly all but two WR's). Tank Williams is 6' 2" 225 and is now a backup ILB. I have both Alexander and Izzo on my cut list. Izzo just isn't good enough anymore to keep a specilaist as a special teamer only.
  18. tombonneau

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    I think Guyton makes it and Izzo is cut, though I'm not sure it's a simple as Guyton has beaten out Izzo. I think overall there are young guys and guys brought in through FA who should be very good ST guys with upside elsewhere, and Izzo is the aged vet caught in a numbers game.
  19. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Care to provide some basis for your statement??

    I prefer to look at the facts:

    http://www.nfl.com/players/larryizzo/profile?id=IZZ474619

    In 2006 his role shifted to being the contain guy (last guy) and he contributed a lot in that season and basically the same last year.

    Kelly Washington, had a great year on "teams" he had 16 tackles and 5 solo and he is a gunner - Izzo had 16 tackles 11 solo. Alexandar had an awesome year, he was the team leader with 21 and 11 were solo.

    Seems to me Izzo is still playing at a high level.

    DO you really want to cut Izzo and hope someone else can be counted on?

    I prefer to have ST'ers that can be counted on and you know you can count on Izzo to make plays.

    Izzo stays.....
  20. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't disagree in principle, but I think Sam Aiken IS a proven ST'er who can be counted on to make plays. The Pats targeted him at the beginning of the free agency period and signed him to a 2-year deal with a decent signing bonus, he's been holding down the contain role in camp, and he's just 28 vs. Izzo's 34. If it comes down to one or the other, my money's on Aiken.
  21. Lamanai

    Lamanai Rookie

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    Based on observing LBs at Monday's practice, few of these guys showed any ability to play on regular downs, so they should be viewed as STers only. (Yes, it was only one practice, so add it to the body of evidence as you all see fit...!) For example, on pass rush drills, Izzo was pushed around pretty easily on *every* attempt. He made Eckel and Jordan look pretty good in pass protection. I doubt Izzo has the speed to contribute as a coverage LB. Guyton may have speed, but did not display any moves or agility. He was routinely contained. Actually, the one guy who looked good rushing the passer was Tank Williams. On several passes he was around his man, and in on Brady, (before deliberately peeling away around Brady). Woods seemed to be in coverage more than usual, or I didn't notice him rushing. (He made the play of the day picking off Cassel with a one-handed grab over his shoulder in traffic...took it to the house.) As for Alexander, from about 75 yards away I could hear BB chew him out ("C'mon, Eric!"). At least Alexander looked like he was trying to win the end-of-practice sprints. I should note that like Alexander, Crable got a tongue lashing or two as well. But as a rookie that is pretty much expected. Crable also got pulled aside a couple of times for what appeared to be meaningful instruction. Mayo looked strong and active. He's a player...



    Last edited: Aug 1, 2008
  22. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mark, good to hear from you and I hope that all is well. I'd wondered if Iz (a fav of mine) would be history last year, but I agree with your analysis above. Somehow, I think that BB has looked at what's happened at the end of the last couple seasons and has decided in a youth movement. A quality youth movement.
  23. PatsWickedPissah

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    Great stuff. Post more, please.
  24. fgssand

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    No argument from me regarding Aikens or even the peoples choice, this years udfa Guyton - both look great to me. I also realize it is a numbers game - I just don't think Izzo's number is up, this year. He still is still a productive st'er quite worthy of keeping, period.
  25. Mark Morse

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    Check your facts! Izzo was 3rd on the team with 16 tackles and 11 solo. Woods led the team with 21 and 14 and Alexander was 2nd with 18 and 15 (which surprised me). At one time opposition coaches had to scheme and account for Izzo on special teams. In order for this LB corp to get younger and faster they need to keep some of these guys. The Patriots cut Justin Rogers last year and Dallas picked him up ... he had the same stats as Alexander and better than Izzo!

    I have not been impressed with Alexander as a ILB and Izzo simply cannot play the position. Guyton has been used at both ILB and OLB. He played in the shadow of Phillip Wheeler at Georgia Tech. I think that Guyton makes the team because of his versatility and speed. We differ in our opinions ... thats OK.
  26. captain stone

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    I really, really hope so. It's past time to give youth, speed, size and talent a chance at LB/STs.

    And he can take Alexander with him, too.
  27. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that is what I said, he was third on the team - but he was no longer the gunner, playing a role staying back to be the last line of defense. He is a vital cog on special teams, time has not yet passed him buy.

    We do AGREE though that Aikens and especially Guyton belong on this team. I have watched him in 4 practices and I like what I see after 10 practices of course.

    I realize it is a 53 man roster and it is impossible to keep everyone, not easy at all thats for sure.
  28. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I'm thinking that those alleged game-changers haven't changed a whole lot of games for Buffalo in the last few years....
  29. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Guyton is a rookie. He hasn't been used anywhere yet. Izzo has been used at LB in regular season games and in the playoffs. Check your facts. :D
  30. AzPatsFan

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    If you look at the roster there are 17 players on it that are thirty years old or older. Most dynasties die, because the coaches get sentimental for their old veterans and then their is a forced massive exodus in a year or two and the team can't accommodate it, and still recover.

    BB has done less of that than most but still age is catching up on the Pats. By 2010 there will have to be a lot of turnover of front line players. If BB decided to start making plans to turnover those 17 places within the next three years then 5 or 6 have to go this season. Can you name five 30 or older vets to cut?

    Izzo, Pollard, Seau, Ross, Clement, Kenny Martin are all marginal players, that could yield to a youth movement, without much pain. But then the clump of the key players of the Pats Dynasty start showing up. Then there are Neal, Harrison, Bruschi, Webster who will need replacement by no later than the end of the next season. Followed by Faulk, Morris, Light, Hochstein, Vrabel, AD probably a year later.

    Then Moss and Brady...
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
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