Can Chandler Jones push past the rookie wall?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    IMO Jones is the x factor for the defense. Realistically the Patriots can't rely on Brady playing lights out for 3 games. There are going to be some critical 3rd downs where the defense will have step up.

    Like most rookies the last part of the season becomes a burden, they are not used to the grind and have to learn how to play through injuries. He flashed some nice pass rushes against Jacksonville and the extra week should help.

    Would anything be better than a 5 sack performance against Manning in Mile High?

    Go Patriots
  2. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Tough to say, but I do think he was trending back up the past couple weeks. No recorded sacks, but he was usually forcing a QB move that resulted in a sack, which is a good sign to me. I think the injury set him back for a while and it took some time to get back up to speed.

    On a similar note, I think it was a big step getting Cunningham back in there for a week before the playoffs. I remember when Spikes was suspended in 2010, missed his four games then had the bye week, and his first game back was the Jets in the playoffs. I don't think he was nearly as effective because he had to go instantly from no football to playoff intensity, which is hard for anyone let alone a young player. Cunningham provides some nice depth at end and push inside on 3rd downs, and getting some of the rust knocked off against Miami was a good thing. He and Jones were feeding off each other well before Jones' injury and Cunningham's suspension.
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    Not arguing the rookie wall as I definitely see that as a real issue for rookies but I will argue wether or not Jones decrease in production was a result of the wall. He got hurt and I assume, even though he missed a game or two, that he was playing on a bad ankle for a few weeks if not still. His play has seemed to go back up in the last week or two so maybe he is getting healthier.

    He has two weeks off so if he was still feeling the effects of the injury hopefully he can fully shake that off.

    Either way though its playoff time and he has chance to show us what kind of player he will truly be. A lack of playoff production wont say much as he is still a rookie but if this kid goes off in the playoffs then we will truly know what kind of player we have.
  4. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

    Should probably give him the benefit of the doubt given his injury, but it seems more likely to me that the rookie wall is in play nonetheless, plus teams have film on him now and know how to stop him. He going to need to put in some real work to get back anywhere near to the way he started. (good news is it sounds like he's the type of guy who will).
  5. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    agreed thats why I said I am not arguing the rookie wall as it seems like a real thing to me. Also I think there being film on these guys is a large part of the wall, its not just the physical but its about being able to counter what the league throws at you once they have a book. I would actually classify the wall in 3 parts and 2 of them are mental, 1) the physical obviously a rookie must adjust to playing more games 2) internal mental - a rookie must be ready for the mental grind of constant meetings and a larger playbook/schemes (this being internal there own coachs meetings schedule and studying there own schemes) 3) external mental - adjusting to smarter players that are in the NFL and adjusting to them learning what you do and how you do it best.
  6. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #93 Jersey

    Jones' problem has been consistency, which is a part of how Rookies hit that wall. He would dominate for one series and just be there for the rest of the game up until his injury. His injury made him a non-factor until the last quarter of the Jags game when we had another Chandler Jones spotting.

    Jones contributes one of two ways: A) outside move B) set edge and let other guys flush the QB to his side. One thing I found encouraging about the Jags game was that it was the first flash of brilliance we saw out of him in the late stages of the game. Before then, conditioning was a clear issue and we rarely saw him do anything in the second half. A big part of the transition to the NFL is playing more games and keeping in shape. Jones hadn't even played a full college season last year.
  7. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

    I'd argue he contributes in other ways as well, i was rewatching the Miami game and on at least 2 of the sacks you can see Jones being double teamed by the TE and LT.

    This shows that at least OC's still hold him in some high esteem. It also helps the Pass D as there is one less guy to cover.
  8. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    It's all about his ankle, not the "wall".
  9. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

    Too lazy to look it up, but wasn't his production tailing off before he got hurt? I might be remembering wrong, but I thought he was getting stonewalled a lot and seeming frustrated in the last couple of games before going down. I definitely hope it's just the ankle because I was way more excited about that pick than any in recent memory.
  10. Sciz

    Sciz Supporter Supporter

    Belichick on All-Access: he "played probably his best game of the year" last week. Sounds like he's coming on just fine.
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

  12. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker Supporter Supporter

    Agreed, I believe he went sack less two games in a row before the injury. I think he's playin ok at this moment, he's getting pressure that is forcing the QB to run into the arms of other rushers. I remember at least 2 of the 7 sacks last week were due to direct pressure from Jones. He's getting close, I see a 2 sack game in his very near future.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I think it is a little silly to say Jones hit a rookie wall. Before his injury, he was a stud. I think he was in the top 5 of all 4-3 DE in QB pressures prior to getting injured against Indy. He clearly was not 100% when he returned from injuries.

    The last game and a quarter, Jones has returned to stud status. My guess is that he needed to regain his confidence in his ankle that he can go all out without favoring it like many young players do returning from injuries. I think that the injury may help to avoid the rookie wall all together since he sat out two games and barely played his first game back.

    I think the rookie wall is becoming an outdated concept. I think the offseason conditioning and advancements in conditioning training in general has made rookies far more conditioned coming into the NFL than in the past. With these rookies in much better shape, it increases their endurance to not slow down late in the season.
  14. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah Supporter Supporter

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    Spot on.
    What about Russell Wilson's rookie wall? Redskins' Alfred Morris? The list goes on. Another ill conceived topic readily debunked.
  15. zipster9

    zipster9 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #54 Jersey

    Jones has the physical abilities, and willing to learn. He needs an experienced pass-rusher as a mentor to teach him and refine techniques.

    Question is who that would be on the Patriots coaching?
  16. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah Supporter Supporter

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    Pepper Johnson says Hello!
  17. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

    I agree that endurance shouldn't be an issue for him, mainly due to the missed time. If the ankle is healed up he should be able to go full throttle in the playoffs.

    The OP didn't address it, but IMO the 'rookie wall' is about more than just endurance. It's about the league getting film on an unfamiliar player, finding ways to neutralize him, and then how he responds. I would think QB's and pass rushers are very susceptible to this. Jones seemed to catch teams by surprise the first half of the season with his variety of rushing moves. Just saying it takes a lot more than just an arsenal of moves to truly be an elite pass rusher. But I think Jones is hardworking, has a good good nose for the football, and hopefully a good enough motor, so I still have [exceedingly] high hopes that he'll become our next McGinest. He just needs to bulk up just a bit and hopefully develop a real mean streak. :beatingcoming:
  18. 1%er

    1%er Banned

    BB stated earlier this week Jones had his best game of the season against Miami. He had an ankle issue which is recovered now. I expect him to be a breakout player this playoff season.
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