Camp Battles: WR

[fgssand]

I read this and I thought you were going to say bring back Troy Brown.
quote]

Troy will be on the APPIWAN list - All Pro Patriot In Waiting As Needed

 

[signbabybrady]

If it were strictly a football thing, I would probably agree.

The issue with Favre is I can't deal with the whole Brett Favre drama he surrounds himself with in order to satisfy his need to be THE STORY. Years 1-3 of his fake retirement tour were brutal enough. Year 4 would be unbearable.

I think the media is responsible for that much more than Farve. Yes Farve made it public each year he was thinking about it but then the media runs with it and not only that but the networks all wanted to capture Farve last this or Farve's last that and we were certainly beraded with it but I am not sure Farve was responsible for it other than being indecisive but who can blame someone for being indecisive with a decision as important as retirement.

I'm pretty far from stupid, do not know Rogers, nor did I go to his high school and I would like to see what he has more than I would like to see Favre come back. Favre said it was a rumor (that he started no doubt) that he was coming back, but in the event that he did, I would be extremely disappointed. For me, it's just time to see Brett hang them up and pass the torch.

IMO if Rodgers was that good than he would make his way to a starting position whether Farve were to play for another 10 years or not. If he is that good than you will get your chance to see it and enjoy it. But we Know how good Farve was and we saw last year that he can still bring it, If he were to stay retired than that would be it you would never get to see that again (except on replay) and I just don't see why that is a good thing.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think the media is responsible for that much more than Farve. Yes Farve made it public each year he was thinking about it but then the media runs with it and not only that but the networks all wanted to capture Farve last this or Farve's last that and we were certainly beraded with it but I am not sure Farve was responsible for it other than being indecisive but who can blame someone for being indecisive with a decision as important as retirement.




IMO if Rodgers was that good than he would make his way to a starting position whether Farve were to play for another 10 years or not. If he is that good than you will get your chance to see it and enjoy it. But we Know how good Farve was and we saw last year that he can still bring it, If he were to stay retired than that would be it you would never get to see that again (except on replay) and I just don't see why that is a good thing.

The only reason Rodgers was still on the bench was because Packer nation would invade the front office with knives, pitchforks, and torches if Lord Favre were seated.

 

[signbabybrady]

The only reason Rodgers was still on the bench was because Packer nation would invade the front office with knives, pitchforks, and torches if Lord Favre were seated.

only reason????


Do you think Rodgers was going to lead that team to as many wins? might that have had a little to do with it too?

 

[dhamz]

I think the media is responsible for that much more than Farve. Yes Farve made it public each year he was thinking about it but then the media runs with it and not only that but the networks all wanted to capture Farve last this or Farve's last that and we were certainly beraded with it but I am not sure Farve was responsible for it other than being indecisive but who can blame someone for being indecisive with a decision as important as retirement.

He called a press conference last offseason to announce - he had not decided anything. Think about that one. He did a crying routine on the field two years ago and a goodbye interview sparking Brett tributes everywhere - then announced a week later he had made no decision on retirement.

You think when Favre leaked to ESPN yesterday that it is a media created story? It is a Favre created story.

There is no denying the media loves the guy - why wouldn't they? He gives them stories and has them over for dinner. Do not think for a second that Favre does not love and seek their attention.

You think it is a coincidence that Favre waited until the NFL's dead period to put this out there? He made himself the only story for the next 3 weeks. The only reason anyone is talking about him today is he again sought to be a story. He NEEDS to be.

 

[tombonneau]

For the love of all that is holy, don't let Brett Favre hi-jack this thread! You're just giving him what he wants!

 

[signbabybrady]

He called a press conference last offseason to announce - he had not decided anything. Think about that one. He did a crying routine on the field two years ago and a goodbye interview sparking Brett tributes everywhere - then announced a week later he had made no decision on retirement.

You think when Favre leaked to ESPN yesterday that it is a media created story? It is a Favre created story.

There is no denying the media loves the guy - why wouldn't they? He gives them stories and has them over for dinner. Do not think for a second that Favre does not love and seek their attention.

You think it is a coincidence that Favre waited until the NFL's dead period to put this out there? He made himself the only story for the next 3 weeks. The only reason anyone is talking about him today is he again sought to be a story. He NEEDS to be.

I guess Farve is equally if not more responsible than but that still doesn't change why I would want him to come back which is that he is one of the greatest QBs in NFL history and one more season of that is always good in my book.

 

[signbabybrady]

For the love of all that is holy, don't let Brett Favre hi-jack this thread! You're just giving him what he wants!

well he has given us what we want for 15 years and that is high quality football. The only thing that I don't like about Farve is his 96 season.

 

[bradmahn]

well he has given us what we want for 15 years and that is high quality football. The only thing that I don't like about Farve is his 96 season.

Brett Favre looked scared, old, and stupid the last time he played. Spare me the "we'll never be able to see that again" nonsense.

Back on topic: Gaffney and Jackson are the main combatants here and I think Jackson will be given every opportunity to seize the role. Gaffney is a great insurance man/third or fourth WR, but he isn't ideal for the position that is available, nor have they invested a second and third round pick in him only to see his development curtailed by injuries. We know what Gaffney is; Jackson is still a mystery and when it comes down to it, potential buys you a lot of opportunities.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Like I said in another thread, this needs to be Jackson's breakout year if he lines up opposite Moss. This year, Moss is guarunteed to face double coverage from just about every team we play against. Welker is going to be keyed on a lot more. Production from Jackson will really help our passing game out.

I'll be happy if Jackson can stay on the field. If he remains healthy, I do believe he will have some decent numbers due to the focus on the likes of Moss and Welker by opposing defenses.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeah, Makin' Chad your fantasy draft sleeper? Heh.

I was hoping, wayyyyy back when we drafted him, that he'd have this uncanny leaping ability so we could call him "Hanging Chad." The way he's been riding the pine, I think the title may fit for a whole different reason.

He's finally at the point where if we don't see it this year, we can officially declare him Bethel Johnson.

But I'm optimistic.

PFnV

 

[RayClay]

Seems like the top 3 plus Chad and Washington. I don't see anyone to battle.

It's make or break for Chad, and Washington's STs, size and ability (he was the third rated WR in 2003 and only dropped due to medical concerns on his neck, I believe) make him ahead of challengers we have now.

Aiken could stick on teams.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think when there's an attempt to label wide recievers with numbers there's always a lot of confusion. Some fans seem to think that the #1 and #2 WRs are dictated by how many passes they catch and some think of it in terms of what position they play.

Welker and Moss will likely lead the team in catches - but as far as the position of most interest, it's the question of who will line up opposite Moss and hopefully draw some deep coverage away from Moss.

If that's Gaffney by default, I have no question he'll catch plenty of balls - but I don't expect one will see enough of those thrown and caught deep to really draw too much coverage away from Moss.

If Jackson can step up and use the talent and speed he appears to posess, he could very well give us the alternative deep threat WR we lacked last year.

Again, I know that one unnamed member here strongly disagrees with my suggestion we lacked an alternative deep threat to Moss and that defensive coordinators fear Gaffney, Faulk and Maroney beating them deep, but I just don't buy that. I'm really hoping that Jackson can step up and help improve the #1 offense in the leauge next year.

We might not see that improvement quantitatively, but I'd expect we would see a qualitative improvement preventing teams from triple teaming Moss in the most critical situations.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think when there's an attempt to label wide recievers with numbers there's always a lot of confusion. Some fans seem to think that the #1 and #2 WRs are dictated by how many passes they catch and some think of it in terms of what position they play.

Welker and Moss will likely lead the team in catches - but as far as the position of most interest, it's the question of who will line up opposite Moss and hopefully draw some deep coverage away from Moss.

If that's Gaffney by default, I have no question he'll catch plenty of balls - but I don't expect one will see enough of those thrown and caught deep to really draw too much coverage away from Moss.

If Jackson can step up and use the talent and speed he appears to posess, he could very well give us the alternative deep threat WR we lacked last year.

Again, I know that one unnamed member here strongly disagrees with my suggestion we lacked an alternative deep threat to Moss and that defensive coordinators fear Gaffney, Faulk and Maroney beating them deep, but I just don't buy that. I'm really hoping that Jackson can step up and help improve the #1 offense in the leauge next year.

We might not see that improvement quantitatively, but I'd expect we would see a qualitative improvement preventing teams from triple teaming Moss in the most critical situations.

There are maybe, MAYBE, 5 receivers in the league who would take the 'triple teaming' away from Moss in the most critical situations. I doubt I could come up with 5, but I'll concede that many rather than argue individual players. Not one of those receivers is available to the Patriots at a price they would be willing, or likely even able, to pay.

Randy Moss is one of the best 2-3 receivers ever to play the game. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of him, the opposing team is going to defend Moss and take their chances with the other players. This has always been the fatal flaw in your "deep threat" argument, and it will continue to be until Moss begins to diminish significantly as a player.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There are maybe, MAYBE, 5 receivers in the league who would take the 'triple teaming' away from Moss in the most critical situations. I doubt I could come up with 5, but I'll concede that many rather than argue individual players. Not one of those receivers is available to the Patriots at a price they would be willing, or likely even able, to pay.

Randy Moss is one of the best 2-3 receivers ever to play the game. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of him, the opposing team is going to defend Moss and take their chances with the other players. This has always been the fatal flaw in your "deep threat" argument, and it will continue to be until Moss begins to diminish significantly as a player.

I see your flaw now. You're asserting there is absolutely NOTHING the Patriots can do to cause opposing defenses not to triple team Moss in a critical deep passing situation.

I don't buy that - especially if we have an alternative deep threat WR.

Even in a Dime package, with 4 CBs on the field, in a situation where we run a play with 4 WRs, one of whom is a credible deep threat, you'd assert that teams will leave one of them open in order to maintain a triple team on Moss?

That's rediculous - and frankly, if the Patriots can't take advantage of that situation when we have a credible deep threat on the field, shame on them.

Of course, I'm confident that our coaching staff has better insight into all this than anyone on this board.

 

[Deus Irae]

I see your flaw now. You're asserting there is absolutely NOTHING the Patriots can do to cause opposing defenses not to triple team Moss in a critical deep passing situation.

I don't buy that - especially if we have an alternative deep threat WR.

Even in a Dime package, with 4 CBs on the field, in a situation where we run a play with 4 WRs, one of whom is a credible deep threat, you'd assert that teams will leave one of them open in order to maintain a triple team on Moss?

That's rediculous - and frankly, if the Patriots can't take advantage of that situation when we have a credible deep threat on the field, shame on them.

Of course, I'm confident that our coaching staff has better insight into all this than anyone on this board.

Well, given that Stallworth was supposed to be a 'deep threat' and his speed didn't result in Moss being freed from defenses designed to take him out of the game, you're arguing something you've already been proven wrong about. Seriously, do you never watch sports? Be it basketball (See Bird, Jordan, etc..), Baseball (See Bonds, etc...) or other, teams do their absolute best not to get beaten by the very best players in the game. Do you honestly think teams say "Look, no matter what happens, we've got to pay strong attention to that Bulls point guard. Yeah, we'll spy on Jordan, but we just can't risk their point guards getting a shot off!"?

If so, I've got some bridges in the desert that I'd love to sell you.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, given that Stallworth was supposed to be a 'deep threat' and his speed didn't result in Moss being freed from defenses designed to take him out of the game, you're arguing something you've already been proven wrong about. Seriously, do you never watch sports? Be it basketball (See Bird, Jordan, etc..), Baseball (See Bonds, etc...) or other, teams do their absolute best not to get beaten by the very best players in the game. Do you honestly think teams say "Look, no matter what happens, we've got to pay strong attention to that Bulls point guard. Yeah, we'll spy on Jordan, but we just can't risk their point guards getting a shot off!"?

If so, I've got some bridges in the desert that I'd love to sell you.

So are you now contending that Stallworth WAS an effective deep threat WR who still failed to pull coverage away from Moss?

If he had the talent he certainly wasn't used that way. Whether he had the talent and wasn't used, or lost a step and could not serve in that role is a different debate. But I didn't see Stallworth being used in that role, especially towards the end of the season when Gaffney was used more.

I think you're also trying to insult me with your response as well (something you seem fond of doing) - but if so I'm missing the point. If you want to compare basketball to football, be my guest, but anyone who understands the two sports knows that such a comparison is far beyond apples to oranges.

But to go along with your analogy, if Jordan were triple teamed you don't think that an opposing team would be able to find one of their two open men to take the shot? I do.

Of course that person would have to be good enough to make the shot - akin to having a credible deep threat WR good enough to get deep and make the catch.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Moss should be one of the top 3 WRs taken in fantasy drafts. Welker will be a very solid #2-3 receiver for the mid rounds. Chad Jackson is the mystery man. A late round sleeper that could pay off big. Who knows. This kid has all the talent but hasn't shown anything yet. I was really excited when we drafted him, hope he shows something in training camp/preseason.

 

[DookFish]

As a first time poster, i have a proposal to increase materially the competition for chad jackson and jabbar gaffney.
I propose that we sign as a free agent Chris Henry, unquestionably the most talented free agent remaining on the market. His catch total was affected adversely by the presence of two pro bowl quality wide outs in cinci. He is a deep threat and a huge mid range and deep target. He will stretch the field in a way that jabbar cannot. He will present Brady with a red zone target alternative to Randy Moss.
In short, he is the out of the box free agent signing for which Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick are famous.

Respectfully submitted, The DookFish.

 

[bradmahn]

As a first time poster, i have a proposal to increase materially the competition for chad jackson and jabbar gaffney.
I propose that we sign as a free agent Chris Henry, unquestionably the most talented free agent remaining on the market. His catch total was affected adversely by the presence of two pro bowl quality wide outs in cinci. He is a deep threat and a huge mid range and deep target. He will stretch the field in a way that jabbar cannot. He will present Brady with a red zone target alternative to Randy Moss.
In short, he is the out of the box free agent signing for which Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick are famous.

Respectfully submitted, The DookFish.

He is a punk and has no business in the NFL, let alone with the Patriots.