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Camp Battles: QB

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Metaphors, Jun 30, 2008.

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  1. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Locked Down Roster Spots
    Starter: Brady
    3rd/Developmental: O'Connell

    Camp Battle
    Cassel vs. Gutierrez vs. New Signing for Backup QB

    Cassel is the incumbent and has the physical size/skills the Pats are looking for. Has shown glimpses of being an effective QB but more often has shown slow decision-making which has led to missed opportunities and negative plays.

    Gutierrez also fits the Pats physical prototype for a QB. Not enough game action to really do much of an evaluation (to be fair, same for Cassel), but he seems to have a good feel for the pocket and the ability to get the ball out on time.

    Don't see a veteran worth signing that would be available during training camp, so it seems like the Pats will stay in-house for the answer.

    Metaphorically Speaking
    Cassel has the "experience" but Gutierrez has the better timing (2 year bridge for O'Connell to get to #2). Hard to make an informed determination on whether Cassel has hit his ceiling or if Gutierrez's feel for the Pats passing game is real or just a fluke. This is a camp battle where every training camp and pre-season snap will be important.

    Making the assumption that neither of them will outplay the other by such a degree that the roster decision is obvious, I'll give the spot to Gutierrez. The Pats offensive players will be effective enough to win most games as long as the QB doesn't take negative plays (sacks and interceptions). If Gutierrez can continue to show a steady hand, he should be able to captain the ship during a short-term Brady absence.

    Roster to date:
    1 - Brady
    2 - Gutierrez
    46 - O'Connell (gameday inactive)

    RBs up next...
  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    This is certainly an interesting battle. Is Guit still practice squad eligible...how does being the emergency QB effect that? If he is Elidgible I could see that as an easy choice. I know some people would perfer to trade Cassell and get something for him before he walks at the end of the year but I think it is more important to have the best possible back up than to pick up an extra draft pick which I doubt would be very high (prolly 3 at the highest).
  3. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, he is still practice squad eligible. He was active for 5 games last year; you need 8 to become ineligible.
  4. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    Thanks I knew there was a rule about how many games your in but I wasn't sure how being the emergency QB effects that.

    So while I like what we have seen from Guitierez with the rook and Cassel I would be OK with risking losing him to stash him on the practice squad. If we lose him it could come back to bite us but we aren't planning on needing him.
  5. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    Holy crap, a football post. TC must be nearing.

    Good post. Agree with what you say. I liked what I saw from Gutierrez. Big questions, like you said, is do we see a sophomore jump from Guts and is Cassel going to play with poise. Can't tell in practice as Cassel always looks good in red.

    Looking forward to the RB post. Biggest question, there (IMHO) is Morris' health.
  6. signbabybrady

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    #24 Jersey

    I'll save my reasoning for the RB thread but I feel the big battle there is between Eckle and Evans. Biggest concern as you said would be Morris' health.
  7. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    I was going to do a camp battle thread every couple days or so until TC. RB should be interesting with special teams considerations and the veterans out there looking for work.
  8. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So, I'm guessing we won't be trading Cassie for a #1 or #2 pick, like I used to read here...
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I believe we're screwed with any of them if Brady gets hurt (of course I would have felt the same with Brady as backup in 2001) so who can play better this year isn't of huge relevance to me. I would keep Gutierrez as I expect we'd lose him if we tried to PS him and keeping him gives us a clear developmental path for next year. I also think we could get a low, conditional draft pick for Cassel; a conditional #6 or the like.

    Despite my first sentence, I think I would be slighly more comfortable with Gutierrez if we had to play him or Cassel. Despite reports last camp of Gutierrez looking bad in practice, he seemed more "game ready" in the preseason last year; understanding it was just preseason he seemed like the type who ups his play when the game starts.
  10. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    If the unthinkable had happened and Tommy got hurt and Cassel looked good, that wasn't unreasonable with how solid he looked against Miami in the season finale three years ago. Obviously things have changed as he has barely played since.
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gutierrez was, I felt, a very distant 3rd on the depth chart last season. I don't know how he's to be expected to leapfrog Cassel when the team had enough confidence in Cassel last year that they cut Testaverde loose. While anything is possible, I would expect Cassel to be the team's #2 quarterback this season yet again.
  12. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I agree with this. I've never seen a QB more maligned for throwing a pick-6 to the reigning Defensive Player of the Year than the raking over the coals Cassel receives for that pick in Miami. Crazy.

    I think Cassel i the #2, O.C. the #3, and M.G. gets cut or traded for a 6th-7th if he looks decent in the first few preseason games.
  13. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    You guys could well be right but my opinion isn't based on that INT - again, admittedly in preseason, Gutierrez just looked more comfortable and accurate that Cassel who still looked skittish to me. Not comparing Gutt to Tommy but watching him in preseason made me say "hmmm" much like Tommy did in his tiny appearance against the NYJ at the end of the game when Bledsoe got hurt.
  14. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    I was really high on Cassel but he doesn't seem to have the ability to make quick decisions when the initial read is covered. I'm less worried about interceptions with Cassel than I am about taking sacks.

    Gutierrez seemed to have better rhythm in the pocket, but it is such a small sample size that you really can't draw too many conclusions. If he can just get the ball out on time on quick routes, the receivers/backs/TEs are at a high enough level to get the needed yards on their own. Thinking longer-term, I like Gutierrez from an age/contract perspective to bridge to O'Connell.
  15. signbabybrady

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    #24 Jersey

    That actually seems like a good quality for a back up QB. Ideally you wont your QB to lead and win games but for a back up I am happy to have someone who can come in and not lose games. So it is a good quality that he would hold the ball and take the sack rather than forcing one in there that may be complete or may go for a pick.
  16. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Unfortunately he's shown a propensity to carry the ball like a loaf of bread and fumble too. Cassel intrigued me, and still does to a lesser extent, but I really thinking the lack of playing time in college and now, what 3 or 4 years with us, has caught up to him. I may change my mind in August though.
  17. ctpatsfan77

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    IMO, the only reason Gutierrez has an advantage is that Cassel will be a UFA next March, while the Pats hold Gutierrez's rights through 2010.

    And, as I've said before, I would not be surprised at all to learn that the Pats had already worked out a tentative trade with the Falcons ("Yeah, Tom, a conditional sixth for Cassel sounds good. . . .").
  18. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    That's a good point, but another way you can read it is that they cut Testaverde in favor of Cassel and Gutierrez. Gutierrez was a distant 3rd, but that was a year ago. In his second year he should be much closer, having had enough time to master the playbook and gotten in rhythm with the receivers.

    As others have pointed out, because of their contract situations, Gutierrez doesn't have to close the gap, he only has to look like he will.

    This is one of the most interesting battles, and unlike the line play, which I can never figure out, and the secondary, which the TV doesn't show, it's easier to see who's winning.
  19. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    This is an excellent point. If MG looks solid, I could see this scenario unfolding. Either way, hopefully the Pats can ship one of them for a late day two pick.
  20. signbabybrady

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    #24 Jersey

    I posed the question in this thread already but I'll ask again as you and someone else have brought up the trade scenario.

    What is worth more having the best back up possible or having the late day two draft pick. I mean if we are assuming that we have seen enough from Guit to think his ceiling is higher but that Cassel is better right now than if the unthinkable were to happen this year than Cassel would be the guy I want in there. And I think especially on this stacked team that having the Best Back up possible is more important than a day 2 pick.

    Basically I am saying that the guy backing up Brady is more important than a late pick who may get cut himself.
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