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Camp Battles: Final

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Metaphors, Jul 15, 2008.

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  1. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Roster So Far...
    1-2: QB Brady, Gutierrez
    3-5: RB Maroney, Faulk, Morris <Evans>
    6-9: WR Moss, Welker, CJackson, Gaffney <Washington>
    10-11: TE Watson, DThomas
    12-18: OL Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, O'Callaghan, Hochstein
    19-23: DL Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Wright
    24-29: LB AThomas, Hobson, Mayo, Vrabel, Bruschi, Crable <Woods>
    30-33: CB Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Webster
    34-37: S Harrison, JSanders, Meriweather, TWilliams
    38-45: ST Gostkowski, Hanson, Paxton, KWashington, Woods, Evans, Izzo, Slater
    Gameday Inactives
    46: QB O'Connell
    47-48: OL Britt, Yates
    49: DL LSmith

    Cut or Traded: Cassel, Pollard, Ross, Mruczkowski, SThomas, LSanders, Aiken, Alexander, Spann, Ventrone
    Battling for Inactive Spots:
    RB: Eckel, Green-Ellis
    TE: Spach, Stupar
    LB: Ruud, Redd, Guyton
    CB: Richardson, Wilhite
    DL: Fafita, KSmith

    So we have 4 inactive spots remaining. In looking at the roster so far, there are 3 groups that are a little under-represented based on traditional roster numbers...TE (2), DL (6) and DB (8). Based on this, I'm going to drop Eckel and Green-Ellis from the conversation...the 4 RBs on the roster seem like enough and there are plenty of out-of-work candidates available in an emergency.

    In an effort to avoid overthinking the process, I'm going to pick a single player from each of the non-RB groups.

    Camp Battle
    Spach vs Stupar

    Have absolutely no insight on Stupar. Spach has some experience from last year as a 3rd TE and on special teams. Spach gets the spot. (You can't get this level of deep-thinking for free anywhere else)

    Camp Battle
    Ruud vs Redd vs Guyton

    Ruud has ideal skills for a special teams ace. Good straight line speed, pursues well, solid hitter and wraps up. Not so sold on his ability as a LB. If Izzo or Woods go down, I like Ruud on the active 45. Don't like him as a developmental LB.

    Haven't seen Redd play but coming from a small school he looks like a prime candidate for coaching up. Rare size and good speed for a 4-3 OLB.

    Guyton is a stud from a measurables perspective. Really fast and hits with malice. Needs to show he can translate those physical skills consistently on the field, which he didn't do in college.

    Redd has the best opportunity to get this spot since there aren't many 6'6" linebackers out there with 3-4 experience. Guyton will have to show a consistent motor and the ability to play inside and outside. I'll give the spot to Guyton based on the speed potential, but will be keeping an eye on Redd in the pre-season games.

    Camp Battle
    Richardson vs Wilhite

    Richardson showed potential last year before going on IR. Not sure what the Pats see in Wilhite, since his ability didn't jump out at you at Auburn. Richardson gets the spot unless Wilhite shows up big time in pre-season.

    Camp Battle
    SThomas vs Fafita vs KSmith

    I didn't think another lineman was needed, but these threads have convinced me otherwise. As a result, I've pulled Santonio off the scrap heap and put him back into contention. Fafita and Smith are JAGs but it seems like Santonio made an impression on the coaching staff. Santonio gets the call and should give appropriate depth on the d-line.

    So the final roster is:
    1-2: QB Brady, Gutierrez
    3-5: RB Maroney, Faulk, Morris <Evans>
    6-9: WR Moss, Welker, CJackson, Gaffney <Washington>
    10-11: TE Watson, DThomas
    12-18: OL Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, O'Callaghan, Hochstein
    19-23: DL Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Wright
    24-29: LB AThomas, Hobson, Mayo, Vrabel, Bruschi, Crable <Woods>
    30-33: CB Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Webster
    34-37: S Harrison, JSanders, Meriweather, TWilliams
    38-45: ST Gostkowski, Hanson, Paxton, KWashington, Woods, Evans, Izzo, Slater
    Gameday Inactives
    46: QB O'Connell
    47-48: OL Britt, Yates
    49-50: DL LSmith, SThomas
    51: LB Guyton
    52: CB Richardson
    53: TE Spach

    Looks good to me and is pretty well aligned to the roster predictions in other threads. That says to me that camp and pre-season will be more about earning and defining roles...with only a few roster spots really on the line.

    Now that Reiss is back, this exercise has run its course and he will get us to camp with his positional analysis. Please critique the roster above but also provide some insight into your reasoning if you want to change roles or roster spots.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    Very nice breakdown on all positions thanks for posting them.


    I agree TE and Dback are underrepresented but not sure 6 D-linemen for a 3 man line is under represented.

    and I would switch Santonio for Wilhite (who at this point would have the higher ceiling). I resisted putting Eckel there instead of Santonio because Wilhite made to much sense for me as DB had a huge overhaul and some of that compition shuold and will spill into the season so why axe someone so quickly.

    Eckel will be battling Evans for that spot as the FB and Eckels STs may help him there as I feel he is the better STer of the two (both are good STers though so that wont be enough). I think Eckel will find his way on this roster as he is a really good STer. Not sure who wont in his place but that will shake out in camp.

    I see Pollard making the team over Spach too, as we need some vet presence there in case Watson were to be hurt.



    and Hopefully Seau comes back even though that will add to what seems to be a too deep roster (by too deep I mean deeper than 53). I think more than any other year teams will really be looking for a gem from our scrap heap.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  3. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Said this before, but don't mind repeating:
    Metaphors, this has been a tremendous portfolio of threads!

    Enjoyable ... thought-provoking.
    Your analysis and remarks have been quite penetrating
    ... and you've brought out the best in us responding posters.
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Awesome job Metaphors - I've really enjoyed reading these threads.

    For the battle spots:


    Richardson v Wilhite
    I disagree about Richardson having the edge over Wilhite - the fact that they spent a 4th rounder on Wilhite shows me they have SOME expectation that he can come to camp and have a good chance of making the squad. Whichever player gets the spot will really have to earn it - but I trust in BB/Pioli's judgement of Wilhite's talent, even if he wasn't really on my own personal draft radar, but what does that mean :D

    Stupar v Spach:
    Stupar was a guy who I did have on the radar as a late round option at TE based on the scouting reports I'd read....Unfortunately, I don't remember what they said and I've never seen the guy play. So, likewise, I also give the edge to Spach simply b/c he's spent time on the team, and is noted as a solid blocker.


    Ruud v. Guyton v Redd:
    For the same logic as Wilhite v. Richardson, you have to assume BB/Pioli believe Ruud has the ability to compete for a job on this team [well, as much as any 6th round pick on this team could...], given the value they've assigned him by spending a pick on him. The rest is up to Ruud. Personally, I like Guyton and Redd more [based on what I've read about them], they seem like they have higher upside. I wish we could sneak all 3 on the PS (I'm banking on a Seau return), but what are the odds of that?
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  5. NEsince92

    NEsince92 Rookie

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    Great job Metaphors! Very well done!
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW, I disagree with this; over the past year, the Pats seem to be rather pleased with Eckel. (They paid him more than the minimum to sit on the PS, and then they re-signed him for 2009 before the season ended. And don't forget the "guilt" factor, or the recommendation from BB's father, either: if BB has a back-of-the-roster binky, it's Eckel.)

    And, BTW, whatever happened to Ventrone? You didn't account for him here. . . .
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  7. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    I agree I think Eckel makes this team too. He was a special teams ace for us last year. But my opinion is biased as I am at the head of the Eckel fan club.
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    If Eckel stays, someone must go. I don't see him providing necessary depth (RBs are easy to find) and I don't see him as developmental. If Eckel is BB's binky, that won't matter...but there is some good looking talent at the back end of this roster.

    As for Ventrone and Spann, that is my goof. They should have been on the cut/traded list since they didn't make the cut at safety or special teams.
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kudos for doing such a nice job on this, very thorough and detailed...
  10. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Eckel vs Evans is more infavour of evans as BB send evans in alot in blocking assignment when faulk needed a blow with maroney available.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  11. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    awesome series of posts by metaphors. Major THANKS to him.
  12. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    You won't get a word from me about the Evans vs. Eckel Patsfan's Steel Cage Match (but wait, you just did:D) but I am here to say Slater makes the team.

    Legit 2 way skills are oh so rare, plus he's a bonafide return threat and ST wild man. Slater's like 5 positions rolled into one with NFL bloodlines to boot. If he gets cut I'm not watching a single game! :rolleyes:
  13. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    So, do we keep this post marked? ;)

    I'm saying Evans over Eckel just cuz he has a cooler name.

    No seriously, I'm rooting for Evans. He's gonna be a big deal in the blocking game this year. Mark these words.
  14. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Evans or Eckle ... kinda like choosing between two Miller Lite or Bud Light? At the end of the day, you're still stuck with a crappy beer.

    As much as it makes me cringe to type, I'd have to go with Evans. Ugh. I really wish they would have upgraded RB4 ...

    Anyway, I think this could be the year Izzo gets a call from The Turk; I think there are too many younger LBs with upside who can play ST and might contribute more down the line.
  15. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Alexander makes the team and Crable gets cut.
  16. BestQB

    BestQB Rookie

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    No way on this earth that BB has only 2 TEs on his opening day roster. Brett Favre would come out of retirement and Manning's consecutive game streak would be in jeopardy.

    To quote the General on the Capital One commercial, "What just happened?"
  17. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey


    Limb's gonna get cut off, bro. Alex is at BEST, a JAG.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  18. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    A GREAT job of lining it all up...really good...MAYBE this should have a stickie through TC..so one can look at and compare what all said thought of with what occurs...ALL GREAT!!!
    As to the final roster...If Fifita can prove to be a backup NT..he will stay and be the 7th lineman. As to the OL...again it's the same 9 as the past 2 years..the FINE NINE!! What if Neal is on PUP?? Or Kaczur is suspended?? I do think there has to be some concern there. And what about the health of Big Ben?? I do think Spach MAY be the guy..with Stupor on the PSqd...joining possibly RB Green-Ellis. AT LB...I think the loser of the 3..the 2 have a chance for PSqd as well...and I would Say Redd..just on general principles. Alexander though may have some say as well. As for the last DB spot? Wilhite may have potential in teh long run..but if it's ST only, why not Ventrone??
    And I do think there will be some last minute moves that will shake it all up.
  19. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

  20. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Yeah, that's very true. I also think there may be a signing of some kind tonight.
    Anyone else say "hrm" at the News Blitz for today? Or the fact that it has magically disappeared...?
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