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California Is So Not Texas

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    For one thing - they believe in keeping history honest - and complete.

    Los Angeles (CNN) -- Democratic California Gov. Jerry Brown said Thursday he had signed a bill that will require public schools in the state to teach students about the contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.

    The bill, believed to be the first of its kind in the nation, will also require teachers to provide instruction on the role of people with disabilities.

    California law already requires state schools to teach about the contributions of Native Americans, African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, and Asian-Americans, among other groups.

    "History should be honest," Brown said in a statement.


    California governor signs bill requiring schools to teach gay history - CNN.com
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Will they learn about the sexual preferences of all historical figures, or just the ones with the preference that apparently has greater "historical significance"? How much detail do children need about that area?
  3. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    When will this "complete history" stop? Everybody is a (insert title here)_________Americian. Why is it necessary to label everyone?
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not sure they're going to say "they're gay," I think they just mean they won't routinely skip over them as if they didn't exist or as if certain events never happened.

    But what do I know?

    P.S. Nowhere does the article or "I" state that anyone has "greater historical significance." I wonder why you felt the need to add importance. No one was detracting from anyone else's "importance" in the first place.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    No ****. Why do we constantly feel the need to divide everyone into special interest groups. So when will they teach the historical contributions of redheads and blondes to society? We so need a voucher system in this country.
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Why? Would you have you children not learn that there were African Americans who contributed to history? Or that there were not Mexicans, or women or gays who contributed?

    Would you want to prevent your children from learning the names Harvey Milk, Martin Luther King or Margaret Sanger?

    What's the point of teaching history if you leave out the historical human rights struggles which have occured and talk about how they happened and who was instrumental in their occuring at all?
  7. PatriotsReign

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    I think it's enought to just use their names. Do you believe history should teach who among those named were gay, lesbian, Mexican, native American, Italian American, Irish American, Jewish American, ad infinitum?

    I mean, do you think the history books should include chapters on each of these groups? After all, if I had kids, I'd just want them to know who was significant and contributed, but I don't want or care if they learn the sexual preference or nationality of each group just so EVERYBODAY can think, "see, my people matter".

    Maybe they'll be new college/high school courses called "American History: A Special Interest Perspective"....but then again, I'm sure there are already.

    Here's a unique idea....how about if we just teach HISTORY with names, events and dates?
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If that supposition were true how do you explain the pride people take in those very groups of "my people" when it comes time to have an Irish parade or a Latino parade or an Italian parade. People DO take pride in those who share their heritage. Jews are proud that Einstein was Jewish, Italians are proud that Christopher Columbus was Italian, Latinos are proud that Cesar Chavez was Latino, gays are proud that Harvey Milk was gay, women are proud that Margaret Sanger and Sally Ride were women.

    What possible objection do you have to EVERYBODAY thinking "see, my people matter?" It's called having heroes you can identify with. It's called pride in one's sex or one's heritage. It's called having a "role model."

    Like I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure that's not a big part of the point. There are history classes that do not mention gay rights or the struggle that gays have undergone to achieve them. There are history classes that gloss over or worse, fail to mention, blacks or Latinos or females who played an important part in history.

    Heck - quick, without looking, tell me who discovered the North Pole.
  9. PatriotsReign

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with pride in your heritage, I agree. I just don't want history to become a center for making sure "all groups are covered". If the subject is American history, I don't think we need our educational system to review every special interest group possible to make sure there's something "in there for them". Otherwise, we'll end up with 10 times the number of pages we now have.

    At the same time, there is nothing wrong with taking a course in "The history of African-Americans" or "The History of American diversity"...I think the latter would cover much of what we are discussing.

    I think the important issue is "How relevant was it to American history" and if that's the barometer, not every special interest group could ever be covered. At the same time, our history books shouldn't leave one with the impression that America is all about "Male Caucasian, heterosexual history" either.

    It's a slippery-slope where you can't include every group's history, but if you include some, others may be offended. I'm glad I'm not responsible for setting the agenda.

    The north pole is debatable...and who cares?
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  10. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    Please tell me an accomplishment of any transgender individual worth learning about.

    Aside from them getting the state to pickup the tab for their man-boobs.
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Matthew Henson probably does.

    And that's my point. It shouldn't BE debatable. Henson and Peary were there together yet only one of them made the history books.

    Why, do you think, is that?
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    "Transgendered" and "gay" are not the same things.
  13. PatriotsReign

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    So I post all of this...

    ...and you only respond to the North Pole question?

    History books can't cover everyone's identity...history doesn't care about sexaul preference, heritage, age, sex, etc. It's a course in history, not a course in the history of diversity.
  14. PatsWSB47

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    Because it was, A. Peary's expedition and B. Peary was selfish. Not everything is racist. There were 6 people in that expedition and I have no clue what the names, race or sexual preference the rest of them are. Do we assume they must have been black too? Why don't they call the north pole discovery a historical accomplishment by straight men in the history books as long as we're required to have to identify race?



    Edit: i corrected the link if anyone clicked on the previous one, sorry about that
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  15. PatriotsReign

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    I realize this may offend some, I admit, I understand why some refer to liberal as "Bleeding hearts". It's as if they feel somehow responsible to protect other's feelings.

    I'd hate to walk this earth constantly worrying about eveyone's feelings.

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't think feelings have much to do with history. Before you know it, "feelings" will influence the way ENGLISH is taught.... :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  16. chicowalker

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    It's not just liberals who do that -- pubbies just care about offending people for different reasons.

    -------------------

    I think you guys are arguing past each other a bit here.

    I don't know what the details of this are or would end up being in practice. I hope people aren't going to be identified by every qualifier possible. But I do agree with the point I think mrs made earlier, which is that there are many people who have been written out of many history books. Those people, when their accomplishments were substantial enough, should be included, even if they were omitted at some point because they were black, or women, etc.
  17. PatriotsReign

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    COMMON GROUND!

    I have already said significant people should be included...my issue is that we don't need to identify their ethnicity or their sexual preference unless the event is about those issues.

    Still agree?
  18. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    The USA has a pretty atrocious history when it comes to equality. Why not mention the race/gender of people who helped change these inequities?

    Can you talk about Susan B. Anthony, MLK and Harvey Milk without mentioning that one was a woman, one was black and the other was gay?
  19. PatsWSB47

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    #12 Jersey

    Good point...and we all know about all three of those people.....good thing CA residents finally get to hear about them:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  20. The Brandon Five

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    Compared to whom?

    If that's what they mean by "gay history", you are correct. If it means not excluding important historical figures because they were gay, bi, trans, whatever, you are also correct.

    But I don't think it is helpful to balkanize history by identifying every identity group of which historical figures were a member.

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