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Bush's Former Surgeon General Muzzled

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by scout, Jul 11, 2007.

  1. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Bush's first Surgeon General testified Tuesday that his speeches were censored to match administrative political strategy and that he was prevented from giving the public accurate scientific evidence on issues such as stem cell research and teen pregnancy.
    One of his accomplishments as SG was the landmark report on the dangers of second-hand smoke. It's release was delayed for political reasons.
    What a great administration this has been! I'm sure you can trust with confidence any information coming out of the White House concerning the Iraq War.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-carmona_11jul11,1,2060430.story?coll=chi-news-hed
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The job of the SG is to put forward the administration's positions, not his personal POV. If he didn't agree with the administration on these issues, he shouldn't have taken the job. Bad job by whoever vetted this guy before he was given the position.
     
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The SG is the chief doctor of the country. He's part of the executive and under the President, but he's not a political appointment. It works the same way with the Attorney General, he's under the President but he has an independant duty to enforce the laws according to his view of them. Do people want health advice that's based on independant science of a political platform? This isn't anything new, Clinton's firing of Joycelyn Elders was 100% political, but it's wrong now as it was then.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, he was nominated by the President, so I guess you're saying this is just an example of a failure of the administration. Regardless, one would hope that a SG, charged with being the chief spokesperson on matters of public health would follow the Hippocratic oath, rather than be a political puppet. Using your reasoning, it's easy to see how the doctors in Britain engaged in terrorism. They were not true to their profession, but instead true to their political objectives, something I suppose you can sympathize with, even though you disagree with them.
     
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That is a good analogy.

    Government can't be all politics all the time, people have to have some faith in objectivity. My advice to you, patsfan13, is stop making excuses for the administration and start calling crap out wherever it comes from.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    How the hell is that a good analogy? The SG being restricted from speaking publically about his views on stem cell research are akin to a doctor in Brittain plotting to murder innocent civilians? Are you people crazy? How to deal with teen pregnancy, or stem cell research, is somewhat subjective. There is no consensus with respect to either. There is certainly a consensus as to a doctors job, and that is to save lives, and not destroy them. Where it is wrong to censor the SG's views, which the article itself states has been a historical problem, they are still just that, views. The doctors in Brittain were looking to murder innocent people, not give a speech about using rubbers.
     
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The similarity is that in both of these cases, someone is merely "playing doctor", not being one.
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    To somehow compare censoring a speech on subjective material, and the actual practice of murdering innocent civilians, is silly.
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are correct Patters IMO this is a failure.


    The Hippocratic oath involves protecting life. the use of embroyonic stem cells involves destroying life (from a pro life frame of reference). The administrations efforts have been towards non embroyonic stem cells which have actually produced theraputic results as opposed to embroyonic stem cells which have produced no positive results

    There are different POV's on many matters of public health and science, so to pretend the position is totally above politics is absurd.
     
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    The Bush Administration:

    "Putting party before country since 2000"





    Its got a nice little ring to it!

    Hey ROVE!.....use that as the slogan for W in 2008!
     
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You have problems with your analogy-o-vision. Terrorism and condoms are more different than they are similar, but in a very narrow sense the analogy's right on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Think about that for a minute.
     
  13. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Thinking.... thinking... done! Now what?
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    In a very narrow sense means that it barely, if at all, makes a connection. Yet, it is also right on. How can something that barely makes a connection be right on? It either makes very narrow sense, or it is right on, it can't be both.
     
  15. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What the f*ck are you talking about?? It makes sense as an analogy because it was only meant to be of limited scope. An analogy doesn't mean "the same exact circumstances", it means different circumstances that illustrate the same point. Let's take a completely unrelated example and work through the logic:

    1. You say you only eat healthy foods.
    2. I see you eating ice cream.
    3. I call you a liar.
    4. You say, "You're also a liar, you lied about your time in prison!"

    Do I say...

    5a. "That has nothing to do with anything, that was about prison, this is about ice cream, invalid analogy!"

    Or...

    5b. "Ahh, prison and ice cream are different, but the analogy is valid because all you were trying to point out is that we both lied, even though the circumstances of our lies were different. The scope of my analogy was that both examples had lying in common."

    Obviously I'd say 5b :)
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    In a very narrow sense, you're right on.
     

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