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Bush's Botched War on Terror

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by All_Around_Brown, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    http://www.lewrockwell.com/engelhardt/engelhardt151.html

    As summarized by Hoffman of RAND, Al Qaeda has evolved into "an amorphous movement tenuously held together by a loosely networked constituency rather than a monolithic, international organization with an identifiable command and control apparatus.... It has become a vast enterprise – an international movement or franchise operation with like-minded local representatives, loosely connected to a central ideological or motivational base but advancing its goals independently." Obviously, defeating this "movement" requires a very different strategy than the one now employed by the United States. Instead of military assaults on rogue states, it requires a capacity to identify and apprehend the often self-appointed "local representatives" of Al Qaeda, to disable the movement's propaganda apparatus, and, most of all, to discredit its prime messages. On a grand scale, this requires positioning the United States with progressive forces in the Middle East, withdrawing from Iraq, and ending U.S. support for repressive, regressive regimes like those in Egypt and Saudi Arabia; on a purely tactical level, it means developing harmonious relations with professional intelligence officials in other countries and developing a communications strategy aimed at delegitimizing the jihadists' violent appeals within the Islamic world – an effort that can only be successful if it enjoys the assistance of moderate Muslims willing to cooperate with the United States.
    The need for a strategy of this sort has been voiced by at least some terrorism experts in the U.S. and by many knowledgeable officials in Europe. But even those American experts who have advocated such an approach have been repeatedly stymied by the President's unswerving commitment to his own, demonstrably failed approach. No divergence from the official White House blueprint has been permitted. To make matters worse, Bush and his top advisers have insisted on micro-managing the war on terror, choosing tactics that amplify the damage caused by their defective strategy.

    [font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The greatest damage has been caused by decisions made by top administration officials, including the President, Vice President, and Secretary of Defense, regarding the methods used to apprehend, confine, and extract information from terrorist suspects and those associated with them. Most significantly, this includes decisions to permit the abduction of suspects on the territory of friendly nations, to use Europe as a stopover point for the transport or "rendition" of suspects to Asian and Middle Eastern countries where torture is routinely employed to extract confessions, to allow U.S. interrogators to use methods that by any reasonable definition constitute torture, and to tolerate the mistreatment of Muslim prisoners in U.S. custody (whether at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, or in secret CIA-run prisons in Afghanistan, Europe, and elsewhere). Separately and together, these decisions have severely alienated the very governments and religious figures whose assistance is desperately needed to mount an effective campaign against Al Qaeda and its offshoots. [/font]


    -----------------------------------

    I guess this should come as no surprise.
  2. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Its a good thing our federal government is so competant (Katrina relief and all). The article suggests that an incompetant and irresponsible government in a war on terror would be a very dangerous thing.
  3. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    No,...you friggin whiney liberals are making us lose the war on terror! As long as you demand that we play by the rules and that the terrorists dont, we will lose...Dont you get it???? Do you really think that the terrorists comply with the Geneva convention????
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Yeah, so let's play by their rules and fly buildings into planes...
  5. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    We don't need to. The war is long over, remember? Mission Accomplished.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, but what about health care?
  7. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 Rookie

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    #15 Jersey
    A flying building!?! That'd be AWESOME! I think you might be on to something, or maybe I should just put the bong away.:)
  8. ELOrocks17

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    Yeah...and while we are being completely gutless.. er, I mean civilized, they are beheading civillian contractors. Wake up and smell the coffee...Terrorists respond to force...not cookies and milk!
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Well grab a gun and get your bad arse over there before you change your mind.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bush said the war on terror would last for decades. It won't last for decades unless we have a strategy that ensures a steady stream of terrorists. By that measure, Bush's war-by-mistake has been a grand success.
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    It has been said that Bushs policy is creating terrorists faster than we can kill them. Good work George "Whatever" Bush. Looks like ignorance has infected the reich from the top-down.
  12. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There has been one terrorist attack during Bushs' Presidency, there was three during the Clinton years. Clinton did nothing, Bush attacked them. The terrorists are trying to defeat the US military the only way that is possible, by using the left wing of our country to defeat ourselves. They have been captured with instructions on how to claim that they were tourtured, asks for lawyers, access to our courts. All right out of the Hanoi playbook. Forty years later we all know now that the US war protestors were funded and lead by the communists, how long will it take for us to figure out that the left todays is being lead by the terrorists.

    How else do you explain a section of this country that wakes up each morning hoping that:
    US soilders are killed
    Terrorists are not monitered
    Terrorists have lawyers and access to courts
    Somehow we lose in Iraq
  13. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Are you sure there has been just one attack? How do you know this? How do you explain all those mysterious refinery explosions we hear about, that are quickly explained away as being NOT terrorist acts, but some rare occurence?

    I'm not saying they are, but my point is you can't be sure there haven't been more since the media has been effectively silenced during war. There have also been more and more attacks around the world, which is documented.

    Bottom line: Bush's policy is creating terrorists faster than Bush's policy can kill them. Your kids and your kids kids will deal with the Bush Iraq quagmire fallout for decades.
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    How many attacks were there in the five years previous to WTC attack?
  15. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't be serious can you? Are you telling me that their could be an attack on American soil and somehow the Bush administration can silence every single first reponder? every two-bit media person, every eye-witness? at the site. Their is no one to control a situation like that, too many people from too diverse a culture to ever effectively silence them all, so I am sure that their has been no more attacks, because if there was, we would have heard about it.


    So you are saying that CLinton's policy of letting them get away with killing Americans was better?
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There have been countless terrorist attacks during Bush's presidency. Just today, 3 American soldiers died in Iraq. I don't see how you can imply we are safer just because they are killing Americans in Iraq rather than here. It's easier for them to attack the United States in Iraq than here, so that's what they are doing.

    That's BS that the anti-war protestors were funded or led by the communists in the 60s and 70s. Most of those claims (such as those directed against the anti-Vietnam vets) have been debunked. The communists may have funded some fringe groups, just as groups like the John Birch Society did at the time. At any rate, very few of the anti-war demonstrators were communist. They were sick and tired of losing tens of thousands of young people in a war that had no end.

    I don't know who supports those things, but there is a class of people who support giving the government carte blanche in fighting the war on terrorism, even if it tramples our Constitution and our values. People like that are unprincipled and cowardly, and are fighting mostly to address their neurotic fear that our nation is overrun with terrorists who can't be stopped except by methods like those used in dictatorships.
  17. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Yup. Good post Patters. Here Free, have some bricks :bricks:


    ;)
  18. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Seriously, FTW...I'm just throwing that out there. As far as silencing the media, I don't know. Theoretically, it would make political sense. It would also make national security sense. Why? Because the terrorists tool is to make headlines that instill fear in large masses of god fearing folk. The media is the purveyor of that tool, so silencing the media would be the first rule in combatting terror. And this GOP has shown its very serious about political strong arming, national security lockdown (even in violation of the constitution), and media bullying. So in this sense, I ask: how would we truly know, unless it was a really big one that noone could ignore?

    As far as Clinton letting them get away with murder, maybe if he wasn't busy trying to defend himself from witch hunts he might have been more successful. So, by your very own standard (cleverly disguised), since we were at war with terrorists since the early 90's and the GOP was busy attacking him for everything under the sun. Gimme a break. You don't like criticism of Bush. Bush suggests that criticism aids the enemy. How easily that argumnent can be turned on its head and be used against Clintons opponents!! That would make Ken Starr and his whole GOP circus responsible for 911. Even those who were openly criticizing his administration in the media at the time.

    Or, are you saying that we weren't fighting terrorism in the 90s?
  19. ELOrocks17

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    Thank you!
  20. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WOW, I thought the guys in Iraq are Freedom Fighters and not terrorists? Don't tell Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the DNC.
  21. Turd Furguson

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    Or NEM, Mikey, Dryheat or AAB.
  22. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WHY IS IT EASIER TO ATTACK AMERICANS IN IRAQ THAN HERE, BECAUSE IT IS HERE THAT THEY REALLY WANT TO ATTACK, WHY IS IT EASIER IN IRAQ?
  23. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    In Iraq, Most Americans are fully capable of fighting back and kicking ass.

    Not sure you could say the same in a NYC subway or school or what not.
  24. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Patters won't answer because Patters knows why it is easier to attack in Iraq, "the Patriot Act and Bush are protecting America" the smelly muslim terrorists haven't found a way to " Attack America".

    Uncle Teddy doesn't want to "Evesdrop" on the enemy, we are at war with ANIMALS that want to slaughter our women and children and the Democrats don't want us to "Violate Their Civil Rights".

    Imagine waking Harry Truman & Eisenhower up and telling them this.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2006
  25. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    as usual, pinheads miss the point. Because the next president could be a democrat and he just may spy on the crazy kook "conservatives" next. And since you defend going around the court to spy, you can do nothing about it. Then they'll find out all sorts of things about the criminals in the GOP. That would be fun. You won't have your constitution to defend yourself, and Alito supports it.
    so here chuckleheads :bricks:

    More to the point, how about Bush's botching of the war on terra?

    duh....errr....
  26. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    Could you be any bigger a Saddam sympathizer, why because he tried to kill Bush? The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Of course not much has changed, with you attitude towards your country and the soldiers who defend your undeserving *****.
  27. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    here....:bricks:
  28. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IT ISN'T THE IRAQIS THAT WANT TO ATTACK US IT'S THE "MUSLIM TERRORISTS" THEY COME FROM ALL OVER THE MIDDLE EAST AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD AND MANY ARE IN IRAQ.

    The Batty, Looney Liberal Plan For World Peace:
    SURRENDER, STOP WIRETAPPING, DISMANTLE THE PATRIOT ACT, THEN GO BACK TO WATCHING HOLLYWOODS PORN MOVIES, GO BACK TO BLABBERING ABOUT THE POLAR BEARS UP IN ANWAR, SIT BACK AND WATCH ALL THE MORONIC SIT COMS, YELL AND SCREAM ABOUT BUSH'S VACATION, WATCH OPRAH, SAY OVER AND OVER, "WE LOVE OPRAH", GIVE WELFARE PEOPLE A RAISE, BUILD NEW HOUSES FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS, GIVE EVERY ILLEGAL ALIEN IN AMERICA A NEW CAR FREE, MAKE ALL THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANTS EXEMPT FROM ANY TYPE OF TAXATION, IF THE POLICE SHOULD HAVE TO ARREST A MINORITY FOR MURDERING A FAMILY OF SEVEN AND SHOULD THE POLICE HAVE TO SLAP THE MURDERERS FACE, STEP IN, FREE THE MURDERER, ISSUE THEM A NEW CAR, THEN PUT THE POLICE IN PRISON.

    WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF THE SURRENDER THE "SMELLY THROAT SLITTING MUSLIM TERRORISTS" WILL "NUKE AMERICA'
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry, maybe the Republicans should try to make Saddam the leader of their party. After all, you want to throw out the constitution, support eliminating privacy laws, oppose due process, favor torture, don't care if your president lies or launches a war by mistake, and so on. Saddam sounds like your kind of man.
  30. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bush isn't raping little kids yet or beheading anybody.

    I don't want to throw out the constitution, I just want our government to be able to listen to the Terrorist Muslims on the phone so we will know when they plan to Blow Up New York again.

    (common-sense, thats all).
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2006

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