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Bush War Analogy Strikes Nerve in Vietnam - AP Article

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by maverick4, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    War analogy strikes nerve in Vietnam By BEN STOCKING, Associated Press Writer
    1 hour, 7 minutes ago

    President Bush touched a nerve among Vietnamese when he invoked the Vietnam War in a speech warning that death and chaos will envelop Iraq if U.S. troops leave too quickly.

    People in Vietnam, where opposition to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq is strong, said Thursday that Bush drew the wrong conclusions from the long, bloody Southeast Asian conflict.

    "Doesn't he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?" said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi, a veteran of the communist forces that fought American troops in Vietnam. "Nobody regrets that the Vietnam War wasn't prolonged except Bush."

    He said U.S. troops could never have prevailed here. "Does he think the U.S. could have won if they had stayed longer? No way," Trieu said.

    Vietnam's official government spokesman offered a more measured response when asked at a regular media briefing to comment on Bush's speech to American veterans Wednesday.

    "With regard to the American war in Vietnam, everyone knows that we fought to defend our country and that this was a righteous war of the Vietnamese people," Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung said. "And we all know that the war caused tremendous suffering and losses to the Vietnamese people."
    ---
    Bush is so screwed without Rove.
  2. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    How fukced are we as a nation, when a person with such a skewed vision of history is making decisions based on his perception of events, no matter how wrong they are?

    "The only thing we have to fear is.....FEAR MONGERING" - Holy Diver

    (yes I quoted myself)
  3. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Clearly, this idiot was drunk during the war and never picked up a book on the subject when he finally sobered up/found jesus.
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sleeping With the Enemy

    By James Webb

    TheAmericanEnterprise.org | 4/30/2003

    Excerpts:

    For reasons that escape historical justification, even after America’s military withdrawal the Left continued to try to bring down the incipient South Vietnamese democracy. Future White House aide Harold Ickes and others at "Project Pursestrings"—assisted at one point by an ambitious young Bill Clinton—worked to cut off all congressional funding intended to help the South Vietnamese defend themselves. The Indochina Peace Coalition, run by David Dellinger and headlined by Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, coordinated closely with Hanoi throughout 1973 and 1974, and barnstormed across America’s campuses, rallying students to the supposed evils of the South Vietnamese government. Congressional allies repeatedly added amendments to spending bills to end U.S. support of Vietnamese anti-Communists, precluding even air strikes to help South Vietnamese soldiers under attack by North Vietnamese units that were assisted by Soviet-bloc forces.



    .............

    Denial is rampant in 1997, but the truth is this end result was the very goal of the antiwar movement’s continuing efforts in the years after American withdrawal. George McGovern, more forthcoming than most, bluntly stated as much to this writer during a break in taping a 1995 edition of cnn’s "Crossfire." After I had argued that the war was clearly winnable even toward the end if we had changed our strategy, the 1972 presidential candidate who had offered to go to Hanoi on his knees commented, "What you don’t understand is that I didn’t want us to win that war." Mr. McGovern was not alone. He was part of a small but extremely influential minority who eventually had their way.

    There is perhaps no greater testimony to the celebratory atmosphere that surrounded the Communist victory in Vietnam than the 1975 Academy Awards, which took place on April 8, just three weeks before the South’s final surrender. The award for Best Feature Documentary went to the film Hearts and Minds, a vicious piece of propaganda that assailed American cultural values as well as our effort to assist South Vietnam’s struggle for democracy. The producers, Peter Davis and Bert Schneider [who plays a role in David Horowitz’s story—see page 31], jointly accepted the Oscar. Schneider was frank in his support of the Communists. As he stepped to the mike he commented that "It is ironic that we are here at a time just before Vietnam is about to be liberated." Then came one of the most stunning—if intentionally forgotten—moments in Hollywood history. As a struggling country many Americans had paid blood and tears to try to preserve was disappearing beneath a tank onslaught, Schneider pulled out a telegram from our enemy, the Vietnamese Communist delegation in Paris, and read aloud its congratulations to his film. Without hesitating, Hollywood’s most powerful people rewarded Schneider’s reading of the telegram with a standing ovation.

    ...............

    The rhetoric of the antiwar Left during these debates was filled with condemnation of America’s war-torn allies, and promises of a better life for them under the Communism that was sure to follow. Then-Congressman Christopher Dodd typified the hopeless naiveté of his peers when he intoned that "calling the Lon Nol regime an ally is to debase the word.... The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is peace, not guns. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now." Tom Downey, having become a foreign policy expert in the two months since being freed from his mother’s apron strings, pooh-poohed the coming Cambodian holocaust that would kill more than one-third of the country’s population, saying, "The administration has warned that if we leave there will be a bloodbath. But to warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath."



    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={1C8D3E09-9B12-49DF-9D4D-3EDA7899672D}
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gee the communist in SE Asia don't want to be reminded of the 2.5 million they were responsible for killing after the US withdrawal, what a shock.

    :rolleyes:
  6. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    with karl rove gone, bush is going to say ridiculously dumb things from now on, not just his typical harmless idiot phrases.
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    it's interesting that links from rational, fact-based, albeit liberal-leaning sites like ThinkProgress.org are smeared on general principle, yet a pro-war poster can link to an op-ed from a grouchy old marine from a site like FrontPagemag.com and that's perfectly acceptable... lol...

    this is a site that has a daily "Jihad Watch" and peddles the pap of Ann Coulter and the Washington Moonie Times... and has a special section called "Libertas: Conservative Thought towards Film"

    anyhow, hooray!! another Bunkerite op-ed blaming war dissentors and the US's "misguided" withdrawal for Pol Pot's murderous madness in a seperate country...
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  8. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Sure, but how many of those were killed before we left? How many dominoes actually fell when we left?
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have respect for James Webb and his column appears to be more about how war was typified by Hollywood than anything else, I wonder if he were to write the same article today it would employ the same rhetoric.

    OTOH the problem with Viet Nam, is that the whole time and this war has been a product of revisionist history.. the roles of many Fonda, Kerry et al have been magnified to a point of demonization. While those who opposed were blind lemmings following pied pipers, it was none of that.. to view what happened historically denies the tremendous cultural influences taking place at that time. It was a converging of major cultural changes and movements, antiwar, civil rights and feminization.. people generally felt empowered and felt as they could orchestrate change.. IMO one of the erly influences was Eisenhower, probably innocently, when he warned of the Military Industrial complex argument. Subsequent to this much was written on this theme, music changed and the whole issue of empowerment in the democratic process happened. We went from Leave it to Beaver to Archie Bunker practically overnight.. we went from to "Hell and Back" to "Mash" in the same time.. Marshall McLuhan, Andy Warhol.. have said this before and will say it again, that Viet Nam taught many of us the horrors or war along with the responsibility of entering war.. but during that time there was hardship and heartache(friends and relatives came back in a box).. but much of this has been forgotten, unfortunately we did not learn.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    2.5mil is after we left andmay be a low figure, this includes Cambodia and Laos. I worked with folks who escaped from SVN and there was a lot of bloodshed after we left.
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    As opposed to the bloodshed that wouldn't have happened if we stayed another 5 years?
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As opposed to the bloodshed that wouldn't have occured if the communist were defeated,.
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The operative question becomes do you think we could have defeated the communists??
  14. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Then feel free to debunk the said link or site with reasoned, thoughtful arguements. I shot down several of your ThinkProgress links and showed that they were based on biased opinion and innacurate. You are welcome to do the same here. The whinning and crying that you were somehow treated unfairly is beneath you. You presented a TP link, as news, I argued and pointed out the unfair, innaccurate bias which proved my point. Do the same hear if you think his post is unfair or bad.

    As I have told you. I don't think anyone cares that you (or anyone) posts TP links or anyother POLITICAL based site like it (TP has occasional stuff of value on it), it's when individual posters try to pass them off as legitimate unbiased news sources that I have a problem with. I love political blog sites and visit them often, I just understand that what the feed me must be filtered with my own reasoned mind. It's unfair and dishonest to present what a POLITICAL blog says as FACT. Particularly if someone can easily come accross and agrue effectively the other way.

    By the way, Jihad Watch is a great site............ I reccomend it. It has some interesting perspectives. But keep in mind, it someone's POLITICALLY BIASED OPINION, not a pure new source.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Oh, sure we could have. That would have meant about 20,000 non-communists would have been left alive by the time we had killed every single able-bodied Vietnamese patriot. Every Vietnamese soldier, guerilla, and saboteur fighting invading and occupying US forces had a patriotic duty to eject American troops from their country. We were wrong to have been there and wrong to kill civilians there. They were never a threat to us. Incredibly, they took less time to forgive us than we took to "forgive" them...forgive them, that is, for defending their families and country from our transgression. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. The notion that we had anything to win in Viet Nam is arrogant and un-American to say the least. Can you imagine our behavior here if a foreign force were occupying even our most remote and desolate outpost of US territory?

    Once again: The fact that we are involved is not a logical rationale for continued involvement. That type of reasoning is, by definition, fallacious.
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    By the way,
    Where's that Frogblaster guy. He's usually got some Cold War rhetoric on this subject....
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The political will to win wasn't there. We did lots of dumb stuff that got people killed (like restricting bombers to corridors where they could fly allowing the NVA to concentrate the AA assets). The VC were done after the Tet offensive when they took massive losses, the rest of the war was fought mostly by the NVA.

    If we went after NV directly recognizing who we were fighting perhaps we win. But the political will to fight the war didn't exist. so millions died.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You do know who James Webb is right?

    [​IMG]


    He's that guy who won the senate seat Virginia. Oh, and the article is HIS, not the magazines opinion piece. I couldn't even tell you who front page mag is, I only know who wrote the article itself. Of course, just cuz he served there, has been a member of government for some time, for different parties to boot, it doesn't mean his view is right. I merely posted it to show that some people did feel we could have won, and that pulling the rug out was a bad idea.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007

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