Welcome to PatsFans.com

Bush the Liberal

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by BelichickFan, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Sigh. Here he goes again.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2007-01-31-bush-economy_x.htm

    "President Bush took aim Wednesday at lavish salaries and bonuses for corporate executives, standing on Wall Street to issue a sharp warning for corporate boards to "step up to their responsibilities" and tie compensation packages to performance."

    Hey George - IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. BUTT OUT.
  2. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Sure it's his business, he and the US government are shareholders in many, many public corporations. If he started pushing for legislation that would be different, but speaking out's not a bad idea. Not that anyone would confuse him for someone who really cares.
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    What the flunk is he talking about? that is rediculous.

    1st off: Its not his job, nor his business what a company does.

    2ndly: The Carlisle Group, Halliburton, et all should be sharing their WAR PROFITEERING with the soldiers.

    MAN this guy has balls.
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    WASHINGTON - President Bush's choice for the nation's next spy chief would give up his $2 million-a-year job at one of Washington's premier consulting firms for a position that provides him with considerable influence over lucrative secret government contracts.

    Hmmmmm..........
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    I think I hate Bush right now as much as most Liberals. He's so confused and desperate to latch on to anything for a legacy. Grrrrr.
  6. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    He needs to STFU. Here's a guy who's outspent Monty Brewster, and yet he's trying to tell Fortune 500 people how to spend their money wisely, or else! Truly comical. We could only dream that one of those CEO's was in charge of the corporation that is America Inc. We'd certainly be a much more efficiently run machine if one were.

    He is free to offer whatever "advice" he wants. In that regard I do agree Pujo, it's just funny to hear him offer financial criticism.
  7. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    Nothing that the majority of lame duck presidents haven't done in the past. Clinton was desparate to try to achieve middle east peace in his last couple of years for the very same reason, legacy. In the end we all learned what we all knew ahead of time. That Arafat was a terrorist and only wanted the demise if Israel, and not peace for his people.
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Other than not being qualified to know what he's talking about, it bugs me that he's trying to cater to the gap between the haves and have nots just to be cool and popular. How much a CEO makes is irrelevant. Cut it in half and divide it up amongst the workers and they'll probably get an extra value meal each. The percentage difference may be enormous but the actual money is nothing when looked at per employee.
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,505
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    How do successful people become successful people?
  10. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,625
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    #15 Jersey

    Who cares, we were talking about Bush.
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,505
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    So was I.

    According to some, he was a,
    Drunk
    Coward
    Deserter
    Idiot
    Moron
    Chimp
    Coke Sniffer
    How the f-ck did he ever become the President Of The United States Of America?

    Doesn't say much for his opponents.
    :bricks:
  12. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    Exactly. What difference does the topic at hand make when people can blindly bash Bush? :D

    BF, I think some of the bonus' are laughable. The thing is, who am I to tell them how to dole out their money. It's their cash. The reason they have cash, and this country has cash, is because we give entities the freedom to do with it what they may.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,258
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    It's always heartwarming to see righties take up civil rights. They may not want affirmative action for blacks, may oppose including sexual preference in hate crimes legislation, may not favor laws ensuring equal pay for women, may be against minimum wage hikes for poor working people, may not want to give health care to kids, but when it comes to the rights of the extra wealthy, there they are front and center.
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    do you seriously want that question answered?... because we can go there again, if you like...

    no doubt about it...
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    I want to give free healthcare for kids...just not their parents. Kids need a chance and we should be there for them, even if their parents are lazy, drunken, baby-makin losers.

    Patters, this has nothing to do with wealth or entitlements for disadvantaged segments of society. This is about a moron president who is flailing about desperately during his last two years and doesn't seem to know his limitations as president. He is a disgrace and literally cannot do anything right. You should be happy folks like BF are finally seeing what a useless moron of a man Bush is. He has managed to pissoff EVERYONE now. Next thing he'll do is ban rifles or make Rosie O'Donnel a USSC Justice.
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Patters is too fixated on his position to realize that I'm not defending these salaries/bonuses, just pointing out that Bush has no business getting involved.

    I voted (L) in 2004 :)
  17. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    On one hand, your liberatarian approach here is something I agree with.

    On the other hand, as a stockholder in some of these companies that have paid out these huge bonuses and salaries to CEOs it bothers me. It bothers me as an investor because of the expense itself, and it bothers me on a moral level because it seems excessive in relation to their actual contributions to the successes at these compaines.

    Obviously everyone wants to make money with investments, but lately I've been trying to develop and apply at least something that resembles a moral compass.

    For instance I got out of Wal Mart and into Costco because they pay and treat their employees better. Wal Mart stock bought when I was a kid in the early 1980s paid for my college. But years later, I find the company beyond the pale in the way they pay and treat their employees, not to mention the fact that they buy chinese made crap, stick a made in the usa tag on it and sell that myth to the public.

    Anyway, there needs to be some kind of balance.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    Sooner's post is a perfect demonstration of whose business the pay of corporate executives IS. Only stockholders need to voice their opinion formally. Consumers can also make a statement by their purchasing decisions. The government needs to stay out of it - and everything else that is none of their concern!
  19. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I dunno, he's still a citizen and entitled to speak whenever and on whatever topic he wants. I'd only have had a problem with this if he ended his announcement something like this:

    "...and as a result of corporate America not policing itself with regards to these excessive salaries, I've just signed Presidential Order#..."

    They may not be listed in the Constitution's Article II; but Bush's 'bully pulpit' rights are well-precedented. What would happen if Bush signed a Presidential order declaring Tostitos' bite-sized tortilla chips to be America's official Tortilla chips? Even though I hate the damn things 'cause they're too small, I wouldn't be upset because its not relevant or important. Its actually good that he's doing meaningless, ineffectual stuff rather than trampling on what's left of the Bill of Rights. Maybe he'll speak up about the crappy officiating the NFL subjects us to. Does anyone here wanna see the Pats bounced out of the playoffs by way of a crappy PI call for three straight years?
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,258
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Actually, a president is expected to speak on social issues. Unfettered greed is a perfectly legitimate social issue, and frankly Bush deserves credit for taking it right to Wall Street.
  21. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Look at the money that football coaches get. Heck, there's marginal NBA players getting 7 years/$60M - where's the outrage ? :D

    Let the market form itself.
  22. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,258
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    I think there's an important difference. The problem with CEO salaries is that they're not driven by the market, they're driven by a cabal called corporate boards that are often made up of like minded people, who reward each other. There's no way the market would reward an executive with a multi-million dollar paycheck for flat or negative results. There needs to be some accountability. In most cases, there probably is, but in many cases there is not.
  23. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Do you realize that there's really no difference between you using your little bully pulpit(your account here) and Bush using his big giant one(his office) except in terms of audience size? What makes it ok for you to criticize what Bush has to say that doesn't also apply to Bush and his choice of targets? I don't even have to be here 'cause your argument contradicts itself.
  24. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Well two things :

    1) I have nothing better to do - I assume he does.
    2) He's supposed to be a Republican.
  25. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    There is. The individual stockholders have final say over everything. In the case of Microsoft for example Gates has something like 20 million more votes than everyone else because he owns so much more of the company; but most Corporate boards are populated by people with not a lot of stock at all relative to the masses, if those masses all combined and voted together. Now that Bush has pointed this problem out to them perhaps they will.
  26. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    So was 'Trust-Busting' Teddy Roosevelt. How was he perceived in America's board rooms? What President has more cache when speaking about problems with corporate America than the 'Corporate President?'
  27. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Just to be clear, I'm just upset that this is who I voted for in 2000. He's betraying my vote. I thought I was voting for a Conservative. I ended up with this. I'm not saying that he has no right to say it - I'm saying that he's turned out to be a Liberal in Conservative clothing.
  28. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,258
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Cheer up, BF, Bush has let corporations run rampant over Washington, getting insider deals, no bid contracts, no effort to make them care for the environment, no new pressure to prevent them from discriminating, no efforts to discourage them from registering abroad to reduce their taxes, no effort to prevent them from merging and forming virtual monopolies, and much more. He's been extremely conservative on most issues.

    And, on budget issues, the fact is it's the liberals who have historically reigned in budgets, not the conservatives. At least that's true in the last 50 years. I think Democrats have pretty much claimed the mantle of fiscal prudence, and sooner or later it will resonate as a campaign issue, maybe even with people like you.
  29. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..............

    Don't you understand that the entire thing for some is a business's right to run itself, and it's money, as it sees fit? Some people feel that an owner should: Pay what they want, hire who they want, fire who they want, move where they want, etc... This is a difference in ideology and principles. Some people want the government to tell business's who they can hire, and what they can pay. MAybe for some it's about not hiring a black guy, or paying a woman less, but for most, it's about who gets to decide.
  30. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    You know, that's a good example. Adonal Foyle, yeah I know, he's so bad you don't know who he is, makes $10 million a year playing basketball. 5 years, $50+ million. Where's the outrage? DL Drew, 5 years $70 million, where's the outrage? Michael Vick, $100+ million contract..... Gil Meche, 5 years $55 million....and it goes on, and on, and on....

Share This Page