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Bush entered into a treaty with UAE to allow Nuclear Development..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    File under WTF, have heard the argument that Iran should not develop nuclear power because we believe that they have enough oil. Now in his last weeks in office George entered into a treaty with UAE.. right across the gulf..

    Now Obama is going along with it, we armed the Taliban in the 80's.. we should be aware of the implications of our actions long term..

    Oil-Rich Arab State Pushes Nuclear Bid With U.S. Help - WSJ.com

     
  2. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    The UAE is a moderate state and a solid ally in the region. Having this agreement rather than say leaving them to do it on their own (which they would if they wanted to) allows some control over the process. For example, they will agree to buy the uranium rather than enriching it themselves, and be subject to regular international inspections. Here's a quote from the article:

    "The ability to make electricity through nuclear power is a long way from the ability to build weapons -- and, proponents say, the agreement could make bomb-making harder."

    Why wouldn't the US sign off on something like this? Your reaction ignores that the UAE is NOT Iran. The only reason I can see that you'd be against this, but OK with the same kind of deal with say, Belgium, would be racist, wouldn't it? They're brown, so we'd better not let them make nuclear power! Maybe you're against any further development of nuclear power, but it is a logical alternative to oil as oil production peaks and/or demand increases.

    Let's think of the alternative, they come to us asking to have nuke power, we say no, so then they either do it themselves, or do it through the Russians or someone else willing to help and less concerned about where they get there isotope from, and what they do with it once they're done.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's a list of nuclear nations, along with those who have reactors coming into the fold this calendar year.

    Nuclear Power Reactors and Uranium Requirements:

    The issue is not necessarilly nuclear power, it's nuclear weaponry. Iran is enriching uranium to make a bomb.
     
  4. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Come on now, you don't believe that do you? They're simply going to use it for power and good-time feeling hug machines.
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I was thinking a wireless tanning booth. In all seriousness, Iran will go nuclear if it wants to, and I say let them, if all non military means are exhausted to no avail. I'd just let them know, if they were to succeed, that they would certifiably become glass, if a nuke went off anywhere in the world, and it was theirs.
     
  6. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Warmonger.
     
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I would hope that goes for everyone...except for us, of course.

    Seriously, though, even the Russians and Chinese must know that would be the case, right? The big guys have had nukes now for at least 50 years and we've been so lucky to have not seen one go off. I'm more worried about accidental launches or if a rogue element got one off. And we have to be concerned about who gets blamed for one of those instances. If we find ourselves accusing Iran of nuking someone in the future, how do we bomb them back without impacting other countries in the area - particularly China?

    Needless to say, we have no one to blame but ourselves and the other big nuclear powers who were never able to eliminate nukes in the seventies. There were opportunities for all parties to take the leap, but no one had the trust necessary at that time. There has to be a way to get that done. How foolish is it that we've spent so much time and worry on a weapon that has never and can never be used? I hope no one's watching from outer space because we must look like complete idiots.
     
  8. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey


    .....at the moment.

    You further wrote: "Why wouldn't the US sign off on something like this? Your reaction ignores that the UAE is NOT Iran."

    That's a very interesting statement. You DO realize that you could easily switch those two countries around in your sentence and written that truthfully also in 1976?

    ........and the Israelis built Entebbe Airport for Idi Amin in the early 70's.

    ........and U.S. allied with Saddam against Iran in the 1979-1988 War.......

    That's all well and good, but when you're talking about Nuclear technology, speaking in the present tense is a prescription for disaster.

    That being said, as long as the way to enriching for weapons is not part of the scenario, the danger is tempered. I'm not an expert on the science of it. I do, however, chime in on the geopolitical area.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Why would the nations mentioned want to eliminate nukes? Their existence virtually ensures that no major world war will happen. The risk of winning a conventional war, would mean nuclear attack as a last means of defense. I think everyone understands that. It's why proxy wars happen instead (not that they are good). The real risk is what you mentioned, an accidental launch, or the aquisition by a rogue element. The latter is why no one wants Iran to obtain one. Most people in the know feel that Iran will have little problem using one on an adversary (Israel comes to mind).
     
  10. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    In that sense, I'm far more worried about Pakistan than Iran.
     
  11. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Sure, I understand the worry of extreme elements taking control of the UAE someday as they have in Iran, but you ignore the critical part of the whole deal, which is that under an agreement, the UAE has to BUY their enriched uranium through legal channels and account for it all. The other option would be we NOT enter into an agreement and they begin enriching uranium on their own. Now, which is more dangerous 20 years down the road, a UAE that buys uranium from us and doesn't have the capability to make it themselves, or a UAE that because of anti-arab sentiment in the US was forced to go it alone and is now capable of making either reactor grade or weapons grade uranium?

    To deny the UAE because they're arab seems a little wrong, doesn't it? Would anyone bat an eye if this was with Indonesia, even though there are fanatical terrorist groups operating in that country?
     
  12. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Maybe they ARE watching and are just waiting until we destroy all the nukes so they can attack us...
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    My thoughts exactly. There are plenty of unstable situations in the world. I never got why we helped Pakistan get the bomb. That placce is way nuttier than Iran.

    We only focus on Iran so much because they have an arsehole for a president who has said that he wants Israel wiped off the map. No one in their right mind thinks that is the desire of most normal Iranians. The guy is nuts and he doesn't have the authority to do any such thing. He will prolly not even win re-election.
     
  14. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we did help Pakistan get the bomb. In fact I think we wanted to prevent it. They got help from people trained in Europe and the Chinese as far as I know.

    Pakistan is a perfect example of why we don't want Iran to get the bomb, even if as you say they're not crazy enough to use it, their possesion of nuclear weapons changes how we have to work with them. We have to be very careful not to do anything that leads to extremists taking control of the country, which means playing nice with the currrent government even if it means acting against our interests. Its a big reason why we can't get much done in the border region with Afghanistan, we can't piss off a nuclear nation, and we can't let our actions give rise to a coup by extremists to seize control of the nukes.

    I'm with you though that at this point they are a bigger concern than Iran as far as loose nukes or a weapon being used.
     
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    We helped them indirectly but in a very big way. Our massive military and foreign aid since the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan allowed them to dedicate more resources to the bomb.
     

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