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Burgess playing DE in 3-4? Ouch!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by bucky, Sep 3, 2009.

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  1. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I was re-watching the Redskins game and Burgess was primarily in on passing downs, doing next to nothing.

    Then, in the 3rd quarter, I saw a series where Burgess was lining up as the LDE in the 3-4, again doing nothing.

    Now I know that it's only preseason and BB likes to try out players in positions where they wouldn't ordinarily play. But I'm concerned about the following:

    1) Burgess has predominantly been known as a SPEED rusher.
    2) He has not looked very fast so far this season
    3) We have not even seen him playing in a 2 point stance since he got here
    4) Now he's playing DE in a 3-4, making me think that he's just not fast/quick enough in the coaches' eyes to handle the OLB position.

    I'm really starting to think that Burgess will end up being a bust. And given the lack of depth at LB and lack of pass rush on this team, that's very concerning.

    Hope I'm wrong about this one!
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  2. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    I hope you're wrong, too. There's a lot of he's-new, give-him-a-chance talk, but I was hoping to see more explosiveness out of him - not necessarily speed, but more ability to get enough push that he could effectively go inside or outside the tackle with his rush. There are aspects to the he's-new discussion that ring true. I wouldn't expect him to stand-up on OLB this quickly, because there is a lot to learn to play that position effectively, even as a dedicated rusher on pass plays. I also realize that he needed time to get into playing shape, but I would expect that affect him more as the game goes on, and I wonder if he's lost enough that he won't be a significant upgrade for our pass rush. He got some pressure last week, but never got to the QB, and that was a recurring theme last year - close but not quite there. Maybe an extra second of effective pass coverage will be enough to get him there, but I'm not at all comfortable with our pass defense yet, and the pass rush is a big part of that.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  3. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe Rookie

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    I havent really paid attention but how have Woods and Crable done in the pre season games?
  4. CampPen33

    CampPen33 Rookie

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    I thought that I saw him play a whole lot at LDE in a 4-3 look during passing situations... which is exactly what I thought he would be doing in a 4-3 and at OLB in a 3-4 during passing situations... I think a 4-3 better suits his style and ability, and well as compliments the depth we have on the line. Couple that with the thinner look at LB. That being said, I highly doubt he will be playing DE in a 3-4 during the regular season except due to a crisis situation.

    I thought he looked fine, and will only get better when he is more assimilated into the system.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  5. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

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    Dude, it's the preseason. Burgess is also coming off an injury from last year. If he hasn't picked it up by midseason, I'll start thinking he might be a bust.

    He just joined the team two weeks ago. Instant gratification much?

    BTW I really doubt he will get reps at 3-4 DE during the season. Maybe in special situations. According to wikipedia, Colvin was known to play the position at times, and they are similarly built.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  6. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    I think the scheme takes away players pass rushing soul. Ok im kidding somewhat. But i dont get it sometimes. AD was known as a guy who can get after the passer. So they gave him a huge contract then proceed to use him in the middle that first year. Last year he rarely blitzed. Now watching burgess it seems as if he's not being allowed to just go after it but instead has to read and react much more. I know they place the most importance on stopping the run. But this team under this system will never have a pure pass rusher wih huge stacks because they are not allowed to blindly attack the qb.
  7. SVN

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    i dont know much about techniques and schemes but BB's system is basically...pass rush with minimal people and play zone coverages.
    interestingly enough dom capers left the pats and takes over the GB job and has installed the steeler type zone blitzing defense from what i have read. maybe he felt he knew it better than what he saw at NE.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  8. satz

    satz Rookie

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    We have so many new players that we saw alot of new formation in preseason.I would not put too much into this.

    Burgess is going be used on the right side over the right tackle. he is going to effective as the right tackles are stocker but slower.

    Woods also will line up on the same side. also woods is 6 5 and is faster from what i see on video.The faster combo is have AD rush and woods/mayo and guyton in the coverage.

    pull guyton/woods/Mayo out for either banta or burgess or both on pass rush downs.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  9. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I agree, we won't see him playing the position during the season. But there's certainly an opportunity for him to be playing OLB. That's why I'm bringing it up - it's particularly concerning to me that Burgess hasn't even been tried at OLB (or he's been tried in practice and it went poorly.)
  10. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he can effectively play DE in the 3-4, then that's a bonus in my book, although I have my doubts. Makes the personnel packages that much more versatile.
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Good grief. How can you possibly judge a brand-new FA acquisition based on a few quarters in a preseason game?

    And I respectfully disagree; he looked pretty spry to me, when I noticed him.
  12. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I'm afraid you're right. Under Bill Belichick the Patriots run the simplest defense in NFL history. By the time of the Redskins game Burgess had been here for almost 2 weeks. Still no sacks, the only stat (along with INTs) used by BB in evaluating defensive players. Obviously Burgess is a worthless bust. BB makes most of his personnel decisions based on win-loss in off-season games, and since the Pats did beat the Skins, he may keep Burgess. But if Burgess plays tonight and we lose, he's OUTTA HEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
  13. RayClay

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    Yeah, I'm sure they're counting on him as a 3-4 end. He should be able to tie up 2-3 blockers.:rolleyes:

    I wouldn't assume anything because someone saw counted to 3 while he was on the line. A 3-4 end is effectively a defensive tackle size wise. Burgess isn'r even big for a outside linebacker historically on this team.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  14. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    He's 30-40 lbs lighter then the ideal weight for a 3-4 DE. I don't think anyone his size would be effective in that position.
  15. RayClay

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    Or 40-60 maybe.:D
  16. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    why stop there!
  17. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    You can be as sarcastic as you want. But the fact remains that Burgess hasn't even been tried at OLB - which i think almost everyone here would agree is the position he should be playing.

    In terms of stats, I don't care how many sacks he gets. I'm watching the guy pass rush and he's getting nowhere way to often. He looks considerably worse than TBC so far.

    I don't buy the complexity argument either. If Burgess was at least trying to learn OLB, I would not have even started this thread. But all he's doing is rushing the passer. And given that his primary asset is speed, he's either dogging it, or he's lost it.
  18. JackBauer

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    Given that we've been in the 4-3 for pretty much the entire preseason, how on EARTH does this come as a surprise to you?

    And I simply disagree. Burgess has been solid, if relatively unspectacular.
  19. RayClay

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    Burgess looked damned good chasing that QB like a sprinter. Otherwise, I think thid D will be unsettled until at least half season. Looks like they are working lots of packages with various line combinations like the used to, except now it depends more on versatile linemen with TBC and Burgess the wild cards rather than shifting linebackers like 5 years ago or so.
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He obviously couldn't manage it on anything even resembling a consistent basis, but Belichick always has a few gimmicks up his sleeve to disguise blitzes and mess with the opposing QB (think of the one down lineman formations, for example). Lining up Burgess as a lineman in an apparent standard Patriots 3-4 could be one such play.
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