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Burgess can be had for a 3rd and a 4th...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by The_Riddler, Aug 3, 2009.

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  1. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Twitter / Adam Schefter: BTW, Raiders are looking f ...

    Not that we will ever exchange Holiday cards with Crazy Al or that he would even remotely consider dealing him to us after the shafting we've already given him, but why not, with 3-2's in the bank next April, let's part with a 3rd to see if he bites............
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  2. pabst37

    pabst37 Rookie

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....


    Says the Raiders are looking for a 3rd AND a 4th... I think giving up a 3rd is to much, especially since he is going to want a new contract.
  3. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    On the "Moss for a fourth" scale, this deal sucks. :D
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    Keep in mind that the Patriots have sent the Raiders a 3 for Duane Starks in 2005, and a 5 for Doug Gabriel in 2006. So they really don't have a whole lot to complain about. :)

    But I agree, no more than a 3, if that.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  5. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    :agree:

    A third round pick is worth quite a bit. If you look at this year's third round, I can see a dozen players I'd rather have than Burgess. To give up someone of that talent next year for an old, injury-prone OLB in decline seems like too much.

    Realistically, Burgess wants out, and the Raiders want to get rid of him. They will probably have to settle for less as time goes on. It might be worth a 4th to get him a few weeks early though and give him more time to learn the playbook, but I don't think he's going to be the answer.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    Which dozen players? Based on some of the #'s I've seen pertaining to the draft, the odds of a 3rd rounder sticking in this league is about 1 in 3. Burgess is a known commodity, this team's lone unknown is pass rushing. I would do it.

    And don't forget the Pats pick at the bottom of the round (typically), so our 3rd is closer to a 4th.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  7. ramon

    ramon Rookie

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    Burgess is over age 30
    wants big dollars
    had a very mediocre year last year

    significant risk with him


    He is definitely not worth more than a single 4th round draft choice
  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    Starks came from the desert, not the black hole.
  9. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rookie

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    The question is when is COLVIN going to be resigned?
  10. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    My bad. Point still remains, though, that the Pats coughed up a 5 for Doug Gabriel, who was back in black by the end of the season. They still don't have much to complain about. ;)

    And maybe the 47-7 rout, then, was payback for Starks? :)
  11. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    AD is the only one with proven ability to get to the QB. Woods, Mayo, Chung may also have potential, but who knows. Burgess had 16 sacks a few years ago, so he has demonstrated that he can get to the QB, but his production has fallen each year since (4 last year) and he will be playing for his third team now. If pass rushing specialists are so valuable, why have two teams given up on him? I'm sure BB has better answers than we do, but it would be comforting to have some veteran depth at OLB.
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Burgess could be a difference maker. Is parting with a 3rd rounder worth helping win the SB in 2009? I say yes. We are stocked with youth and draft picks, we have a spot in our lineup that could see improvement and Burgess could provide some improvement.
  13. Buchanty

    Buchanty Rookie

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    I think the answer to this one lies in Crable's situation. If he is likely to go on PUP for the first 6 weeks of the season and maybe longer then bringing Burgess in for a 4th and 5/6th may make sense. I am sure if BB sees it as beneficial to the team they will be able to sort the compensation out.

    Not so comfortable with a 3rd rounder though.
  14. Rob0729

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    I think Davis is tired of looking like an idiot for making deals that he gets the short end of the stick. He is afraid of sending Burgess somewhere and have him have a Pro Bowl season while Ellis ends up struggling and playing like crap. At least if he gets too much value for Burgess, he can say at the time the deal was too good to pass up. Besides, Davis is crazy anyway.
  15. Deus Irae

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    There's no way I'd give up a 3rd for the guy
  16. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    He wasn't too bad when he came back last year, granted we played some pretty bad team at that point.
  17. WelshPat

    WelshPat Rookie

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    "A third round pick is worth quite a bit. If you look at this year's third round, I can see a dozen players I'd rather have than Burgess..."

    You'd rather have a guys like Michael Johnson/Jason Williams than Burgess?

    Oh and to guys that say Burgess is old he is younger than our top pass rusher AD. Thomas's best sack total? 11 with the Ravens. Burgess had 16 one year with the raiders.... a much worse overall defense.

    At the end of the day, in the third round your drafting a project. You would rather have a project than a proven pass rusher like Burgess?
  18. PatsWickedPissah

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    IFF BB determines that he needs more strength and depth at OLB and that Burgess is the guy, then even our 3rd is well worth it to ensure another ring. As noted previously, most 3rd round picks (ours will be wicked late) don't make the NFL.
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    There's no doubt the Pats would be paying a premium - but there's no other outside options at OLB. Isn't a 3rd rounder worth some insurance at the position?

    Again, we have a surplus of early picks next year, we're already to the brim in terms of young players as it is, I think we can spare a late 3rd round pick. For instance, would you trade Tryone McKenzie for Burgess?

    While I think we can probably make it work with what we have (especially considering our DL & secondary look strong), its not worth the risk if there is another option.
  20. farn

    farn Rookie

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    Too much love for Burgess. Maybe he can come in here and help. But maybe he comes in here and pulls a Beisel.
  21. WelshPat

    WelshPat Rookie

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    "For instance, would you trade Tryone McKenzie for Burgess?"

    Pass rushers are worth more than MLB's, and Burgess has proven he can be elite at this level. So yeah, i would.
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's just too expensive for a rental.
  23. patman52

    patman52 Rookie

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    A third straight up is too much. I would give a 4th sliding to a third if he re-signs with the pats. A third for a one year rental is too much.
  24. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    The draft definitely isn't a sure thing, and you're right about the pick being closer to the 4th. But I guess it really depends on what you think Burgess is going to be. If you think he's the answer (or a large part of the answer) to the hole left by Vrabel, I guess you could justify the third. But I'm concerned about the recent string of injuries and age, and I also think we could get him for less.

    As for this year's third round, if we're not talking about fits for the system and strictly on talent/potential, guys like Shonn Greene and Louis Vasquez are a few intriguing names. I'm not a fan of Michael Johnson, but he was a potential first-rounder who dropped, so there could be a value pick there.

    And I liked the Pats' picks this year, Brandon Tate and Tyrone McKenzie (too bad about the injury). A guy like Patrick Turner probably won't be a star, but could have developed into a nice third receiver, especially behind Moss/Welker. I like Lardarius Webb and Derek Cox too, and there are several other guys who would have been projects or else could contribute right away, but don't necessarily have a lot of potential.

    I'm sure others have picks they'd love to have, or maybe hate the guys I named. But the point is over the next 4 years, I'd rather have one of those guys who could develop, than a declining Burgess.

    If we're talking a 4th or 5th rounder, do the deal, it'd be much better. Then it's a low-risk, high-reward deal.
  25. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Cousin,
    They say that the draft is an imperfect science. A small percentage of players make the NFL. I feel the Pats messed up by not taking OLB Michael Johnson in the third round and had the ammunition to take him or wait a little longer for Volmer who had a forth round ranking. Yeh...... I know in BB we trust but our drafts have been about a "C" average in the last five years accumulated. Burgess is not worth a three.
    It seems that just like in the year of the "Don't worry. We have some good WRs this year" and we brought in three top shelf guys the following season because those good ones were not. Now we have pounded our chest and said "Don't worry. We have some good outside pass rushers this year". And we have to trade away a third rounder (irony=see Johnson) to get a 30 year old guy who is on the down spiral and considered plugging in Jason Taylor who is as old as Vrabel whom we are replacing and would have cost us as much.
    You have Crabel who hasn't played a down and has Maroney disease, Woods who had a sure fumble wrestled away from him buy a skinny Giants RB that actually could have been a turning point in the SB. How embarrassing! Alexander, who must have dirty pictures on someone in the Pats organization to still be here and TBC who was so impressive we let him go a few years ago,.... I guess..... to get seasoned in SF? Now we pick up a OLB name Nincompoop or something like that with three years and three teams who was deemed to slow for OLB and to weak for DE as his calling card and has been cut more times than a piece of sushi in your favorite Japanese restaurant.

    We had a shot at Ellis who might have been better than the above (like J. Taylor but he is older) but they low balled him on money.

    O.K. Here is the shocker. BB needs to spend a dime and ring Shanny or Meyer at UF about this kid. Jarvis Moss is 6' 6 1/2" and 265 and runs a 4.68 40 which is faster than Pats target that year of Eagles LB Bradley and as fast as Bill LB Posluzny and almost as fast as the Panthers Jon Beason. A new staff might be the ticket and guys like AD and Teddy maybe put his head on strait.
    I bet you can get him for less than Burgess as the Broncos are is a quandary and he can be had. Here are some stats:

    "As a sophomore in 2005, he had 25 tackles, nine for loss, and 7.5 sacks. As a junior this year, he became more of an all around threat, finishing with 56 tackles, eleven for loss, and 7.5 sacks.

    Moss has big time upside as an edge rusher.
    He is an excellent athlete, with a great first step. He explodes off the line and immediately puts pressure on the tackle. He has the ability to change direction, and continue his momentum towards the quarterback. Moss has a great frame as well, with a lot of room for additional growth. He has some experience playing in space as well, which could enhance his value to 3-4 teams."
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  26. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    No has beat the 'our OLBs suck' drum more than me but a trade for Burgess just doesn't makes sense (this pretty assures he will be traded to the Pats within 10 minutes of this being posted).

    The Pats barely have any cap space left (about $4.28 million as of 8/3) and Burgess has a $3.5 million dollar salary. Unless he is willing to take a pay cut the Pats will likely wait until he is released. Another possibility is that they trade a D Lineman for an OLB, unlikely but possible.
  27. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    The FO also gave weird Uncle Al a 4th & a 6th this year just to move up 6 spots, so score that one a win for the Crazy one.

    The aging, declining Derrick Burgess is no longer worth a top-100 draft pick, esp. for just one season. Heck, we acquired Moss & Ted Washington each for a 4th-rounder, albeit an early 4th in both cases. I would hold out until Al accepts one of our 5th-rounders instead.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  28. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Moss is a massive bust, has no work ethic, and doesn't fit the Broncos 3-4 defense.
  29. rsd

    rsd Rookie

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    Heck he is even contemplating retirement

    So let's not just randomly pick hyped up players as examples of guys who they patriots should have picked when they have actually done zero in the league (See: Jarvis Moss, Michael Johnson).

    I have no problem questioning the Patriots, but at least give us some good examples DW :eek: :D
  30. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Re: Burgess can be had for a 3rd or 4th....

    What? Ted Johnson was a 2nd round pick in 1995.
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