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Bummed about the JT signing, but the silver lining is...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ice_Ice_Brady, May 13, 2009.

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  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    when you look at the Patriots, and other teams in recent years, all teams have gaps and holes to fill, and all of the Super Bowl champions have won despite having some huge ones.

    In 2001, Drew Bledsoe went down, and Terry Glenn was suspended. Basically the two best offensive players on our team, to our knowledge, had just gotten knocked out. Of course, we all know the story: a team of nobodies stepped it up, patched it together, and won on grit.

    In 2003, Lawyer Milloy was released before the season. Roosevelt Colvin, our biggest free agent signing, was injured for the season early on. That team set a record for injuries and different players, yet won it all. In case you don't remember, our whole secondary was injured by the Super Bowl, Antowann Smith was our running back. Still, the bread and butter was the defense, who collapsed in the Super Bowl, while the offense stepped it up.

    In 2004, we lost both of our starting corners in Ty Law and Tyrone Poole. If this isn't a gap, I don't know what is. This team, like the one before, went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl in pretty dominating fashion.

    In 2005, we had no running game or defense... still Brady worked his magic and we were very close to another AFCCG, before getting knocked out in the house of horrors, Denver, which basically came down to a few plays. 10-6, could have been 11-5 if we played our starters week 17 at Miami. Although the defense struggled, they played admirably and shut down the Denver offense until a phantom PI call. Ironically, an offense that made few mistakes was the achilles heel in the playoffs, with a key interception and several fumbles in the second half.

    In 2006, the problem all season was the passing game, with a bunch of scrub receivers, yet in the end the problem was the defense. Granted if bug eyes had caught a key play late in Indy, we are probably in the Super Bowl... yet the irony is, again, that the defense was much more to blame... the defense that on paper had no holes. Injuries, age, and a fierce Indy offense did us in. Yet I don't recall ever seeing this team having as big a hole as that receiving corps, and they racked up 34 points in the AFCCG.

    In 2007 we had the best laid plans of mice and men. This team was perfect on paper and nearly perfect on the field. We had the most explosive offense ever assembled, yet in the Super Bowl, it was that group, and not the questioned defense that lost it. Sure, the defense let up a late touchdown, but that high powered offense scored only 14 points on the biggest stage. The defense played admirably for much of the game.

    In 2008 the biggest hole was quarterback, yet I think Matt Cassel would be one of the last men to blame in missing the playoffs. Nothing to be ashamed of at 11-5; the Pats offense was still great, and the defense was more problematic. Still, it came down to a few plays (against NYJ and IND) that eventually cost this team... it certainly wasn't the QB position, which everyone was afraid of.

    Looking at some other teams that have won it all:

    2000 Baltimore Ravens- Do I need to say more than Trent Dilfer? Proof you can win by being great on only one side of the ball. Their entire offense was a hole.

    2002 Tampa Bay Bucs- Ummm... Brad Johnson. Another entire offense that was definitely not elite, and probably not even average.

    2005 Pittsburgh Steelers- Weak passing game; offensive line problems throughout the season... was a shadow of their 2004 team, with Plaxico gone and their domianance gone, yet they won it all. Makes no sense.

    2006 Indianapolis Colts- Horrendous run defense; just overall bad defense that was not Super Bowl caliber. Not even close to the best Colts team, not even close to 2007, and probably not as good as 2005 or 2004. Even more irrational stat: Manning 3 TD, 7 INT in the postseason, and this was the most solid, failproof position on their shaky team. Huh?

    2007 New York Giants- To begin with, 6 losses. Lost star tight end in Shockey for the season without much replacement; solid, but not spectacular on offense and defense. Peaked at just the right time, played a tight, undefeated team in the Super Bowl, and took advantage of their one great strength in the big dance.

    2008 Pittsburgh Steelers- Well below average offensive line- did not replace Alan Faneca with another great guard; 23rd ranked offense in the league. Like in 2005, won by being the last team standing of non-spectacular squads. The league's best defense allowed two fourth quarter TDs and almost lost it, but ironically the offense bailed them out in the final seconds. Make sense of that one.

    The Steelers went 15-1 and lost in the AFCCG in 2004, yet won the SB going 11-5 and 12-4. Make sense of that one as well.

    Bottom line is this: Jason Taylor would have made this team better, but by no means would have guaranteed anything. In all honesty it takes the right timing, luck, and execution to win a championship. If 2007 taught us anything, it's that you need to play game well to win, despite what great options and stars you have. Looking at past championship teams from the Pats, all of those teams had, in my opinion, inferior players on paper to the team as it is now constituted.

    As you can see, things change during the course of a season. It appears you are weak in one area, and two weeks later it's something else. Who would have thought that the 2003 team's defense, probably the best in the BB era, would have collapsed in the SB against Carolina? And the offense, one of the worst in the BB era, would have scored 32 points? I could go on and on, but the bottom line remains that each season will present obstacles and challenges, and it's about the team's chemistry and mentality more than how much star power we have. That said, while I'm disappointed we did not get JT, I don't think it alters our chances that much for number 4.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  2. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Wow, that was a really long post.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  3. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    All I know is, the Dolphins aren't winning the Super Bowl because of Jason Taylor and the Patriots are still favorites.
  4. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    The silver lining is that a young player will start who may be around

    beyond 2009. There will be ample opportunity to evaluate the younger

    players.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  5. SeauOUCH

    SeauOUCH Rookie

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    good post OP I was about to post something similiar ( although shorter ;) )

    In the salary cap era you can't field all-pro's at every single position, its just not possible. By not signing JT we are giving our young LB's a chance to step up & contribute. Every single team has holes, I would take our roster over every single roster in the NFL. Our offense is absolutely LOADED, our D is very solid at every position minus 1 OLB spot. I'm thinking BB is high on our young OLB's cause we had every chance to get anyone we wanted in the draft & chose to not pick a single OLB.

    Compare our roster with last years SB champs.

    QB +Pats
    RB even
    OL +Pats
    DL +Pats
    LB +Pit
    DB's +Pats

    If we hold up okish with injuries I LOVE our chances next year.
  6. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Taylor was never the answer. He was always a stopgap measure. Peppers is the answer but apparently too expensive for the FO. Agree that not signing Taylor gives younger player more of a shot and opportunity...... Hello Crable, Redd and others......
  7. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    That's the troof.
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think the offer to Carolina for Peppers has just gone up but I still see no chance of being able to afford him with limited cap space.

    The Pats to get Peppers will not only have to pay him a large salary but will have to probably give most of thier second rounders next season to Carolina and that won't happen
  9. Nestapats

    Nestapats Rookie

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    The only way i might possibly eventually see this happening is if we trade seymour and next years first rounder for peppers and Peppers takes OLB money so 6 mil a year or something. Maybe we should start a new thread on Peppers ;)
  10. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    If staying close to home was more important to Taylor than winning, than I don't want him. I want my team to be hungry, I want them to want to win the Superbowl more than anything else. I don't want some "gifted" athlete who just wants another year playing in the Miami sun.
  11. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    most of the time when you have huge holes, you're screwed. we dont have holes but our olb spot is in shambles. we have one useful player and nothing else. It's going to end up costing us.
  12. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Shambles? Exaggerate much? It could be better but maybe BB knows something that we don't?
  13. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Typical Chicken Littleisms... It is hard to have a "shambles" at LB when you have a former bro-bowler, a current probowler, and a future pro-bowler as three of the four starters...;)
  14. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Didn't think we needed Taylor before, so this doesn't worry me at all. As long as Thomas stays healthy, the Pats will be fine. Vrabel was an anomaly in 2007- we traditionally don't get many sacks out of Woods' position anyways.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And you know that Woods isn't starting how? or Banta-Cain? Both are signed through 2009 only. The untested Crable or Redd could start. Are suggesting that AND calling it a silver lining? Perhaps they could both start and we'll move Thomas inside, and have the weakest set of OLB's in football.


  16. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I actually respect him more for this decision. If it were between the Phins and Dallas, then maybe I'd feel the way you do. But I like a player who just couldn't see himself in the archrivals uniform.

    When Clemens chose the Yanks the second time, and Ty Law went back to the Jets, they were basically writing off their names on the wall of Forever Red Sox and Forever Patriots.

    I respect a player more for that loyalty than I do the carpetbagging guys who swing by for one season and leave.
  17. eom

    eom Rookie

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    the silver lining is that now we can lose all this taylor nonsense and focus on peppers.
  18. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    And a good one.

    The only thing wrong with it is the misuse of the phrase "silver lining".
  19. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    The silver lining ... is that our developing, young, fast, big, OLBs get more training and playing this season. The only older players are Tedy, and Springs, while AD is just in his prime as the next oldest at 32. I like having a young,fast, big and now somewhat experienced Defense. This edition will be Better than last year, on experience alone, and last year was not Bad, despite use of mis-informative and mis-leading statistics.

    Neither Tedy nor Springs are necessarily starters either; they may just be wise, old, cagey reserve depth who can use the occasionally snap to play well in short spurts.:)

    As for the pass rush fears, even as it was mostly on IR last year, we have AD back, Seymour IS back, and Woods is a younger and ready pair in their place, with TBC as the proven main pass rushing reserve. Inside a pair of sophomores ILBs will probably be un-leashed a little, to add some ILB pass rush. That is better than a hurt, aging, Vrabel, an injured IR-ed AD, an injured and IR-ed Woods, and an off the street Rosey Colvin, without any conditioning, and raw rookies elsewhere. Whatever Crabel, the high draft pick OLB, can add would be gravy. Then add an improved Defensive backfield, that might cover better for a fraction of a second too.

    Remember, That beat-up Defense still was Top Ten/Top Eight, and 11-5, while playing essentially a rookie QB.:)

    I think many of you are like old Generals; Always fighting the Last War.;)
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The current LB situation looks considerably stronger than our backup QB situation did at this time last year. :D

    I presume BB knows what he is doing. Not everyone he has brought in has worked (Brown, Beisel, Hobson) and he can perhaps justifiably be criticized for lagging a bit in rebuilding the LB corps, but he is still the man. He will either fix what we perceive to be holes and weaknesses or he has a different appreciation of the strength of the current players.
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