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Building your draft board position by position - week 2: Offense, Interior Linemen

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Box_O_Rocks, Feb 19, 2006.

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  1. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Building your Draft Board - Week 2 is set to start. The focus here is the target rich environment of Interior Linemen; Offensive Center (OC) and Offensive Guard (OG). With all the posts begging for a "roadgrader", we should hopefully see a little more participation leading up to the Combine this week. BB's history here is pretty interesting and sparce, he drafted one OG off the Grier board in 2000 and one OC in 2003, both in the fifth round. He also drafted a LT at the end of the first round in 2005, then moved him inside to LG. Everybody else have been free agent hires. Still, this is a strong field with draftnik-rated value in each round, and a couple heavy-weight G's who have surprising mobility for their size. Many of the G candidates are OTs who are expected to move inside, some have done so in their All-Star games the way Mankins did last year, demonstrating their versatility on a national stage.

    We started from http://www.gbnreport.com/positionalrankings.htm for the NT boards, and I recently shared http://www.northwestscouting.com/index.html which focuses on linemen, this gives everybody a good starting point. I encourage you to scour the web and your draft preview subscriptions for alternative sources - the more the merrier (and share them!).

    There are no rules to building your line, if you want to draft an OT and move him inside do so, but please tell us you did and why you see them succeeding within the Patriots' system.

    As noted above, the Combine starts this week, I started the draft board discussions with 3-4 DLs and Interior Linemen as the two areas least likely to be severely impacted by Combine scores. I expect people to revisit their boards as new information changes their assessments, if finding a 320 lb. DT who runs a sub-4.8/40 at the Combine excites you, by all means go back and update your NT board; but please use a color change to make your updates easier to spot, thank you.

    Have fun, I must now brave the fickle wind to run the snow blower.
  2. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    What to look for...

    The Pats have a physical and mental profile for interior linemen.

    On the roster today:

    Billy Yates 6-2 305
    Ross Tucker 6-4 316
    Ryan Krug 6-4 304
    Stephen Neal 6-4 305
    Russ Hochstein 6-4 305
    Nick Steitz 6-3 315
    Gene Mruczkowski 6-2 305
    Nick Kaczur 6-4 319
    Logan Mankins 6-4 307

    Note that they're all "lean" 300#ers: no beer guts or rolls of fat.

    I took a look at the Combine results from last year, and for the most part, OG prospects are largely indistinguishable on paper. Here are some stats from 2005: http://2005.draftboardinsider.com/guard.html

    One thing that stood out to me, tho, is that of 22 Gaurds at the Combine last year only 6 of them had verticals over 30 inches. And 3 of those 6 (Kaczur, Mankins and Steitz) are now on the Pats roster. Coincidence? Maybe not. The Pats prefer mobile athletic linemen who can move and the vertical jump may be a good measure for how "earthbound" an interior lineman is.

    Also worth a mention, both Kaczur and Mankins were in the top third of the Wonderlic at their position... not the best, but both respectable. Steitz was middle of the pack.

    After Mankins and Kaczur got to know each other, they remarked on how similar they were in personality. I'm sure that's not an accident.

    Prospects at the position should be
    1) 6-3/6-4, 305-315-- 340# roadgraders sound nice in concept, but we're a zone blocking team
    2) Lean and athletic, with solid footwork
    3) I'll be watching the Combine results for OGs who get over 31 inches on their vertical, plus a Wonderlic in the high 20s or low 30s
    4) Loves football, dedicated to the team, puts in the work
    5) Easy going personality, good teammate in the clubhouse
    6) G/C or G/T flexibility is a big plus
    7) Small school or conference is neutral, not a negative
  3. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    Damn that's some fine work you've done rook. I really appreciate what you bring to this site.

    Keep up the great work!
  4. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Excellent analysis. I agree in that the Pats will probably not be looking at the big body OGs such as Max Jean-Giles or Duece Latui in this year's draft.

    I'm intrigued by OT Colledge from Boisie State. I have a feeling that he fits the Pats profile pretty well. I wonder if he could move inside to RG to replace Neal and eventually challenge Light for LT?
  5. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Wonderful summary Rook, thanks!

    One comment...

    I'd just want to clarify that's an easygoing personality off the field. On-field nastiness is coveted.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Rook did a nice job of discussing what the Pats look for in on the OL. However I wanted to add a couple of things that are clearly Patriot when it comes to OG and Cs.

    As Rook said, the Pats prefer mobile, smart guys that communicate well and work well with others, no free lancers in this group. These guys have to be in shape, no fat space eaters on the OL. Another common theme is strength. BB prefers guys that are naturally strong and have good pop at the snap of the ball. These guys must be able to use their hands well. They also have to be knee benders that can get leverage on the DL. In the Pats system, the interior OL guys don't have to be able to drvie DL off the ball and into the secondary, but the have to be able to create a crease or seal.

    After BB drafted Koppen, he talked about Koppen's strength as something that caught his eye. I don't think BB was talking about the kind of strength associated with lifting 225 lbs 40 times, he was talking about natural strength (which some consider a product of leverage to a certain extent.) It's what I call "functional football strength".

    There are some guys in this draft that have that type of strength, but the one guy that really stands out in this regard is Setterstrom of Minneasota. As far as run blocking goes, he's a technical master and he has the natural strength to back it up. Unfortunately, he can't pass block. I would be petrified if Brady dropped back to pass and this guy was at OG for us as a rookie.

    Another guy that I see as having the qualities that the Pats like is Lentz of Michigan. The good thing here is that depending on how is does at the combine, we might be able to wait and bag him on day two and he could possibly step into Neal's spot fairly early. (If Neal takes the trap door out of town.)

    As far as early picks go, I remain intrigued with Joseph, he doesn't play smart, so I don't think he gets the BB seal of approval, but he has talent.
  7. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no serious expectation the Pats will take a G/C on day one (there is plenty of day two talent to like), but with all four of these guys displaying Patriot versatility, they make my day one board.

    -----

    Charles Spencer 6'5" 330 5.15/40 Pittsburgh: Converted DT, showed good mobility pulling in the Senior Bowl. Starting experience at LT. Great prospect for the Dante Linemen Academy with a lot of upside and flexibility to play G and T. A big plus is his teamwork and his dedication to making the transition to O-line. Played DT and TE in high school. Has the nasty attitude BB likes as well as the willingness to play new positions to help the team.
    Concerns: Weight, may be too heavy to last an entire 23 game season in the Pats’ offense. Inexperience on the O-line.
    Projected: 2nd round, probably early.
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/og/charlesspencer.html
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/charlesspencer.shtml
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Charles Spencer
    http://pittsburghpanthers.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/spencer_charles00.html
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050916272037002947
    http://www.northwestscouting.com/custom.html

    Davin Joseph 6'4" 315 5.12/40 Oklahoma: Played RG and LT in College, G and DT in high school, was also a highly rated wrestler in high school. Has the versatility, mobility, and nastiness the Pats like.
    Concerns: Ochmed's comments may affect my final board...
    Projected: 2nd round.
    http://www.northwestscouting.com/custom.html
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050721053091536786
    http://www.draftseason.com/index2.php?Page_Name=PlayerProfile2&id=59
    http://www.draftdatabase.com/z_BIO_OL_Joseph_Oklahoma.htm
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/davinjoseph.shtml
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/
    http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArt...NG=C&DB_OEM_ID=300&ATCLID=11459&Q_SEASON=2005
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Davin Joseph

    Rob Sims 6'4" 310 5.25/40 Ohio State: Showed good mobility in the Shrine Game, took reps at LG and RG, started at LT and LG at Ohio State.
    Concerns: Some write-ups felt he didn’t always play up to his potential.
    Projected: 3rd round.
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showprospect.php?key=Rob Sims
    http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/sims_rob00.html
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/robsims.shtml
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/
    http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/EastWest.cfm
    http://www.northwestscouting.com/custom.html

    Ryan Cook 6'7" 322 5.29/40 New Mexico: Considered too tall for C by some, started cross training at RT his senior season and played RT a couple series in the Senior Bowl. Strong player with decent foot speed and mobility - walk-on who won the starting C job with his hard work. Another Dante Academy prospect.
    Concerns: Inexperienced at G and T.
    Projected: 3rd round. A better value for the Pats if he slips to the 4th round, but worth consideration in 3rd.
    http://golobos.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/cook_ryan00.html
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/c/ryancook.html
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Ryan Cook
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050916135189566443
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/ryancook.shtml
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/2006/02/scouting-reports-offensive-centers.html
    http://www.northwestscouting.com/custom.html

    Other players with day one grades:
    Nick Mangold 6'4" 296 4.96/40 Ohio State: Consensus #1 rated C, had a good Senior Bowl. Nice prospect, but likely to go too high for my board.
  8. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I want to clarify one comment on Joseph. His not playing smart doesn't mean to imply, he's stupid. It's more of an instincts or lack thereof kind as assessment. I think the reason he seemed to get lost at time out there was more a product of playing in several spots on the OL over his career. It may have hindered his mastery of the OG spot from an instincts and reaction point of view.

    I'm still very high on Joseph. He has durability and big game experience. If I thought he could project along the lines of a Waters of KC, then I'd be happy to take him in the second round.

    PS: Another interesting day 2/UDFA OG prospect/project to consider is Boothe. Not a big time program, but he has the exceptional hand strength that BB loves in OL. He's a few years away at this point, but this is the type of raw material that BB could do something with.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks for the clarification. Boothe is already on my board. :rocker:
  10. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    My OG board, I just realized, is totally focused on college tackles...

    DAY ONE

    Daryn Colledge, Boise State
    The dominant LT in his small conference, he's a bit small for an NFL LT but could look dominant at guard. An agile athlete for his size, he demonstrates excellent footwork and balance and is very good with his hands. A smart, tough player with strong fundamentals who can run block and pass block. Nope, that's not a description of Daryn Colledge...it's Logan Mankins from last year. But it fits.

    Rob Sims, Ohio State
    Played all along the line in college, including LT and RT. Great agility and footwork; long arms with good strength and punch. Plays with a nice mean streak. Football family (father played for the Browns).

    DAY TWO

    Tre' Stallings, Mississippi
    Not highly rated at this point, but seems to fit the Patriots profile. 6'4" 317. College LT. Outstanding work ethic, character, leadership. Tough, smart, great motor, good agility, good footwork and fundamentals. Football family (father played TE for the Cardinals). Possible issues: speed, strength.

    Adam Stenavich, Michigan
    An LT equally adept at pass and run blocking, Stenavich is intelligent and technically sound. Hard worker, good feet, plays with good strength and leverage. Possible issue: agility. Could project to either tackle or guard -- at 6'5" 320 5.28, he has *exactly* the same measurables as Kaczur last year.

    Travis Leffew, Louisville
    This slightly undersized LT (6'4" 305) is universally described as intelligent, coachable and competitive. Excellent athleticism, agility and footwork in pass protection; pulls well. Possible issues: strength, overall run blocking.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like Colledge, he'll be on my tackle board. Leffew looks interesting too. My concern would be their strength for wrestling with heavyweights inside. Colledge reminds me a little of Mankins, I suspect he would do okay. I'm less sure of Leffew, though I like that he is a very good technician.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Day Two OG/OC Board.
    Section One: Players who have demonstrated multiple position ability in college or All-Star games.
    Section Two: All others who look interesting.
    -----
    Section One
    -----
    Mike Degory 6'5" 301 5.26/40 Florida: Center, did a decent job in the Senior Bowl. Played some Guard as a sophomore.
    Concern: Needs to build up his strength.
    Projected: 4th round.
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/2006/02/scouting-reports-offensive-centers.html
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050721053014234111
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/mikedegory.shtml
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report10.htm#article2
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report14.htm#article1

    Kevin Boothe 6'5" 315 Cornell: Good run and pass blocking at RG in the Shrine game. OT at Cornell. Nasty attitude on the field.
    Concern: Level of competition.
    Projected: 4-5 round.
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/2006/02/scouting-reports-offensive-guards.html
    http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/documents/fbkboothe.asp
    http://www.robscouting.com/2006/Teams/Other/Players/BOOTHE, Kevin.htm
    http://www.cornellsun.com/media/pap...tml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.cornellsun.com

    Jason Spitz 6'4" 308 5.18/40 Louisville: Can play Guard or Center. Strong run blocker.
    Concern: Pass Blocking per some write-ups (did well in Shrine Game).
    Projected: 5 round.
    http://therealmockdraft7.blogspot.com/2006/02/scouting-reports-offensive-centers.html
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050916264826539094
    http://uoflsports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/spitz_jason00.html
    http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Conference_USA/2004_Previews/Louisville_offense.htm
    http://www.nationalchamps.net/2005/sub/previews/louisville.htm

    Todd Londot 6'4" 304 Miami (OH): C/RT at Miami, alternated series at LT & LG in Hula Bowl. Would need help at LT, but nice versatility.
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 6-7 round.
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/toddlondot.shtml
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report2.htm#article3

    Adam Stenavich 6’4†318 5.28/40 Michigan: LT who would do better inside at pro-level.
    Concern: Mobility.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Big_Ten/2004_Previews/Michigan_offense.htm
    http://www.mgoblue.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=102&section_id=258&top=2&level=3&season=955
    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/adam_stenavich.html

    Jasper Harvey 6'3" 305 5.20/40 San Diego: Center
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://goaztecs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/harvey_jasper00.html
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report8.htm#article1
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050810/news_1s10azfoot.html

    Jason Palermo 6-3 310 5.30/40 Wisconsin: G in college, played C in the Hula Bowl running the strongest/smoothest OL in the game.
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/badgersFB/index.php?ntid=61361&ntpid=54
    http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Big_Ten/2004_Previews/Wisconsin_offense.htm
    http://www.dailycardinal.com/article.php?storyid=1027608

    Will Allen 6'5" 309 5.25/40 Texas: Looked okay playing alongside his college partner in the Senior Bowl.
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/05.bios/allen_will.htm
    http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=8&c=1&nid=1774611&refid=5209
    -----
    Section Two
    -----
    Matt Lentz 6'5" 308 5.26/40 Michigan: Played well at RG in the Hula Bowl.
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 6-7 round.
    http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Big_Ten/2004_Previews/Michigan_offense.htm
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050721053036766152
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/mattlentz.shtml

    Donovan Raiola 6’2†298 5.26/40 Wisconsin: Center, showed some decent work in the Shrine Game.
    Concern: None.
    Projected: 6-7 round.
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/donovanraiola.shtml
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report7.htm#article3

    Greg Eslinger 6’3 288 5.13/40 Minnesota: Experienced, highly mobile Center in a zone blocking scheme similar to the Pats.
    Concerns: Pass blocking experience.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/greg_eslinger.html
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showprospect.php?key=Greg Eslinger
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050919040017507758
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/gregeslinger.shtml
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report14.htm#article1
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report16.htm

    Mark Setterstrom 6'4" 307 5.38/40 Minnesota: Good run blocker in a zone blocking scheme similar to the Pats. Excellent technician. Wrestler in high school.
    Concern: Inexperienced pass blocker.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/mark_setterstrom.html
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20050721053063434447
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/marksetterstrom.shtml

    Pat Ross 6’4†295 5.0/40 Boston College: Koppen’s replacement at BC, former DL, reported to be technically sound.
    Concern: Some claim he has little upside and needs work on pass blocking.
    Projected: 7-UDFA.
    http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/profile.php?id=20060118274581837085
    http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Profiles/patross.shtml
    http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2005/rimington_report12.htm#article2
  13. Box_O_Rocks

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    Combine update: Measured in at 6'6 ½, 328
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Combine update: Measured in at 6'5, 305.

    Combine update: Measured in at 6'3 ½, 300
  15. Box_O_Rocks

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    Donovan Raiola (Wisconsin) and Mark Setterstrom (Minnesota) slipped off my draft board after watching what NFL Network showed of Combine workouts. Both were slow looking and appeared heavy legged. Raiola also suffers from short arms.

    OC/OG Will Montgomery, VA Tech, caught my eye for his performance. I haven't seen him in a game, but Mike Mayock reported he looked better on tape then people gave him credit. NFL network reported he was 5.09/40, 7.4/3-cone, 35 reps/225#, 4.43/20yd shuttle, and watching his mirror drill he looked technically sound going against the concensus #1 OC Nick Mangold (Ohio State). Within the limits of my ignorance, Montgomery had good feet, bent at the knee, butt down, didn't overreach, and even beat up a bit on Nick. He also showed good balance and change of direction in the pulling drill I watched. I'd put him in the 5th round range with what I've seen and heard.
    http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Will Montgomery
    http://condraft.com/player.php?id=1915&cancelSignup=1
  16. Koettbulle

    Koettbulle Rookie

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    Montgomery looked very impressive in his mirror drill working against a very quick guy in Mangold and he's having a great combine so far. Anybody seen alot of VA Tech?

    I thought Spencer looked good in the pulling drill, if he fits the Patriots mental profile I would love him as a RG but he won't last to our 2 rd pick. And Colledge looks like a weak side T or G to me and needs to get stronger at the POA to play RT or RG. His pass blocking technique looks very impressive though.
  17. Box_O_Rocks

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    Bump, back to the first page.
  18. Box_O_Rocks

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    Colledge update:

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts
    There's rook's vertical again - and it is growing! - it was my impression re-watching Combine footage that Dante threw in a couple extra change of directions for him in the 'wave' drill.....I agree with Koe that his upper body strength projects better on the left side than the 'power running' right. I really liked his upfield mobility in the Senior Bowl.
  19. Box_O_Rocks

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    A new addition to the board who meets rook's 30" vertical jump standard.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/03/24/risers.sliders/index.html

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#missst

  20. Box_O_Rocks

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