Building your draft board position by position - week 1: 3-4 Defensive Linemen

[Ochmed Jones]

Before we throw out the names of every draft eligible prospects, I think we need to take a minute and describe the job duties and examine what BB prefers in those positions.

First NT. A Pats 3-4 NT must be able to control the A gaps. This player should possesss a wide base, be an excellent technician and play with extreme leverage on almost every play. Ideal body size is from 6'0" to 6'3". Weight 320 plus and more plus. Remember the taller the player the lower they have to get at the snap of the ball. However conversly the shorter the player the shorter the arms. As we know once an OL gets their hands on you it's usually all over for the DL. This player must be very good with his hands. On running plays this player must be able to anchor (really out leverage the opposition) and tie up two blockers. On pass plays they must occupy two blockers as well as serve as QB spy for the mildly mobile QBs.
Judging from the past, BB prefers guys with a wide base, wide behinds and massive thighs. They must be disciplined in order to hold their ground, stay low and control their gaps. Any NT that shows any piece of his chest to an opposing OL need not apply for BB.

The starter is Wilfork. The current backup is Wright. Wright is very raw, probably two years away from being capable of meaningful minutes.

Ideally we would prefer a veteran backup. Since Oakland and Houston are switching to the 4-3 we have an excellent opportunity to trade for very capable backup NTs in Washington and Payne. Both would need their contracts reworked however.

NT Summary: Only use a draft pick if we can not secure a veteran backup.

DE: A Pats 3-4 DE must be able to control the B & C gaps. This player must be technically sound. They must be able to anchor and control at the snap of the ball. On passing plays they must be able to push the pocket. These players must be adept at defending against both the pass and the run. Ideal body size 6'3" and above. Weight 280 to 310 lbs. BB prefes taller players at DE that are heavier, but also fairly mobile. The Pats do require these players to be disciplined and DE's are responsibile for backside contain on end arounds and bootlegs. BB also prefers very strong players especially with their hands in this position.

Starters: Seymour (the best DL in football currently) and Warren. Backups Green and Hill. Are are under 30 and all seem to be exactly what BB wants.

DE Summary: Unless BB knows of a hidden injury or some other problem, no need to use a draft pick over here unless the player drafted is an exceptional ST player.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I agree, which is why I grade him as a solid Pats prospect but not round 1.

But...consistency check here, BOR. Bunkley is probably 2 inches taller than Wilfork, whom you've nominated to move out to DE if Seymour leaves! VW seems like a straight NT to me.


Meanwhile, anyone have thoughts on Kedric Galston of Georgia? He has the rare body type -- 6'4", 298, 5.0, athletic -- and reportedly a good work ethic. He has an injury history (car accident) and a stupid off-the-field incident history (disorderly conduct in a bar fight) but seems to be regarded as a good character guy overall. Day 2 prospect?

Consistency check aye aye!

1. Wilfork (6'2" per Pats roster) has taken reps at DE with some success, he is not my ideal choice (I know I've got a screwball world view but, I think that Seymour kid is pretty good there), however; Vince has proven he can be effective in an actual NFL game the same way Warren and Green have been effective at NT - not ideal but workable when all else fails.
2. Our Vince is quick off the snap, probably second behind Lightning Dan Klecko when it comes to reacting to the snap.
3. Bunkley (6'2") needs to prove 1 & 2 to me, and he lacks 20+ lbs of momentum and muscle that Vince brings to the field.

Bunkley seems like a decent player, I didn't include him on my list because as of this week I'm looking at the write-ups and draftnik consensus and seeing him grade out as a late first round selection. I don't see him having value there for the Patriots so he isn't on my board. If we were looking for a DL at that point in the draft, I'd take Stanley to give us a Wilfork-like physical specimen to play behind Vince.

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To all,

Ochmed has a nice recap of what a Patriot 3-4 NT and DE looks like.

What I'm looking for in this exercise is three fold:

1. Generate discussion beyond the 'I want the shiny new toy' posts so we actually pick each other's brains - nice first week effort, thanks.
2. Take a more in depth look at each position building up to April 29.
3. Have fun.

We've already seen where some of us wouldn't mind a DL day one and some think it extravagant even on day two. We have the flexibility to build our individual boards to address the value WE, YOU, ME, I see at each position and each round. I personally don't see a first round value for the Patriots at RB, including Reggie Bush. Nut and Heat don't see first round value for the Patriots at NT. Works for me, Dee Webb isn't inappropriately exercising his second amendment rights at any of our brain pans or he'd be the consensus no. 1.

When we put together our final boards we'll each have value groups for the available picks and we'll have reconsidered our needs based on actual roster moves. Maybe by then I'll want De'Angelo Williams, but then I'm not Matt Millen looking at LB and seeing WR.

 

[drew4008]

As an FSU fan I can comment on Bunkley. He is a dominant pass rushing, blow up plays in the backfield type 4-3 DT. He could play 3-4 end as he is very athletic, but it isn't where he's at his best and I don't think a first rounder would be worth its risk, as he has no experience with it. There's no way he could play 3-4 NT, so we can end that discussion.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

http://robscouting.com/2006/Teams/Georgia/Players/Golston, Kendric.htm

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=30224

5th play: run, O-line made the hole, good production from the RB.

D-line changed, L-R, 94 Hall - 58 DT Tommy Jackson - 97 DT Kedric Golston - 93 DE Rob Ninkovich.

O-line dominated D-line and RB waltzed in for TD on the last two plays once Burton and Cofield were out.

This was the only place in my Shrine game notes that Golston's name showed up - not a good sign since I watch linemen first and skill positions second when breaking down a play. Tommy Jackson also takes a hit, neither he or Golston made my Shrine game summary as players to consider.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Get your arguments in order for week 5 when we argue LBs.

I'm going to push for him then too!

footballsfuture:


With his large frame, Kiwanuka could also stand to use some more weight at the next level. Kiwi has as much upside as any defensive player in this draft. He has the physical gifts NFL teams covet as a pass rusher these days. He is an athletic pass rushers, but he has the frame to add the weight to become a very well rounded end. Kiwanuka will be in very high demand in the draft and should hear his name called high in April.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well, as I said I don't think we should be taking a NT on the first Day, but there is a guy on my board who I'm not sure if he's a DE or NT in the 3-4. He's slated as a third rounder:

He is an exceptional athlete for a man his size. He is quick, agile, and speedy. He gets admirable penetration on the defensive line allowing him to be relatively active in the run stopping department in his game. He is an outstanding tackler who plays with great range and is great at covering ground on the field. He is also a great pass rusher because of his superior speed for his frame. He is good at beating offensive lineman from both a physical standpoint and a finesse standpoint. He has a good resume of moves that he uses, and they are quite effective too.

That would be Orien Harris of Miami. 6'3" 300.

Other NT prospects, but probably undrafted free agents:
Jason Hatcher 6-5, 285 Grambling
Stephen Bowen 6-5, 275 Hofstra
A.J. Schable 6-3, 285 South Dakota
Brandon McKinney 6-2, 335 Michigan State
Fred Thwreatt 6-2, 350 Texas Tech

Those are based purely on measurables. I haven't watched any of them.

Now the 3-4 DE is another story. I'm fine drafting one early. Broderick Bunkley from Florida State is probably my favorite, at 6'2" 300 lbs. I'd be cool with drafting him somewhere in the 27-40 range.

And an interesting chart to consider:

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/value_board.htm

Looking back over your list, I find Hatcher and Schable interesting. Hatcher as a possible 3-4 DE (I read one review that compared him to Seymour) and Schable as an ILB (he played LB and RB in High School and should make the transition back - his height would make him better inside where his weight would help him as a run stuffer - as a Div-2 sack artist he could also have enough 'burst' to handle some coverage duties).

Bowen would need some awsome Pro-Day numbers to be considered for OLB conversion.

McKinney and Thwreat are unproductive at the college level.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Bump, back to the front page.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

bump......

 

[Flying Fungi]

bump......