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one of the worst jobs to take out there with fitz as their QB

Fitz isn't the problem, he's the excuse. The problems in Buffalo run much deeper, and with a good team around him Fitz would be just fine... a Flacco caliber QB.
 
I just checked one of the Bills boards...


Calling the reaction mixed, lukewarm or hesitant would be an understated way of putting it.
 
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With all the retread coaches out there, why not take a shot on a guy who did ok at a major program w/ coodinator experience?

A middling record at best at Cuse, and certainly not a major program.

Back in the day, there was a very successful coach from Cuse that took over an NFL franchise, and back then Cuse was a really good program (no longer).

That coach did not work out so well.
 
Maybe, but Mangini obviously didn't give a rat's ass about the collateral damage.

How so? He supposedly had no idea it would blow up like it did and that he was just trying to cause a distraction.

Considering I'm sure that Mangini was a part of taping signals here while he was our DC, one way or another, I think this make sense. It also came to me via a friend of a friend who has dinners with Kraft, so take it for what it is worth.

Even if it is true, though, I think there's probably hard feelings between Belichick and Mangini for what happened after our playoff loss in 2005 when supposedly Mangini was talking to assistant coaches on the plane ride home to recruit them to the Jets.
 
A middling record at best at Cuse, and certainly not a major program.

Back in the day, there was a very successful coach from Cuse that took over an NFL franchise, and back then Cuse was a really good program (no longer).

That coach did not work out so well.

I don't totally blame **** McPherson. The talent he had at his disposal was abysmal. Tommy Hodson? Hugh Millen? Scott Zolak? The only thing good about those years was Lisa Guerrero on the sidelines coaching the cheerleaders.
 
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Fitz isn't the problem, he's the excuse. The problems in Buffalo run much deeper, and with a good team around him Fitz would be just fine... a Flacco caliber QB.

Wow, I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that you must have been watching someone else and thinking it was the Bills, or that you think striving to be Flacco-like isn't a problem.
 
I don't totally blame **** McPherson. The talent he had at his disposal was abysmal. Tommy Hodson? Hugh Millen? Tommy Hodson? The only thing good about those years was Lisa Guerrero on the sidelines coaching the cheerleaders.

He could have had the 85 Bears and he wouldn't have finished .500
 
A middling record at best at Cuse, and certainly not a major program.

Back in the day, there was a very successful coach from Cuse that took over an NFL franchise, and back then Cuse was a really good program (no longer).

That coach did not work out so well.

25-25 in a conference that any quality team was abandoning like rats off a sinking ship.
Perhaps you could argue that he was in an inferior program and got it to mediocrity, but the Bills are the Syracuse of the NFL.
I would bet my bank account that Doug Marrone leave Buffalo with a career losing record, and a nice chunk of it that each season he coaches is below .500
 
How so? He supposedly had no idea it would blow up like it did and that he was just trying to cause a distraction.

Considering I'm sure that Mangini was a part of taping signals here while he was our DC, one way or another, I think this make sense. It also came to me via a friend of a friend who has dinners with Kraft, so take it for what it is worth.

Even if it is true, though, I think there's probably hard feelings between Belichick and Mangini for what happened after our playoff loss in 2005 when supposedly Mangini was talking to assistant coaches on the plane ride home to recruit them to the Jets.

Jonathan Kraft did an interview recently where he talked about the return of McDaniels, and he made it a point to basically say (I don't recall the exact words so I'm paraphrasing) that there was no reason at all not to welcome McDaniels back, but that was not the case for all the former coaches.
 
It could work out, but it's not likely... so gotta love their choice.
 
Wow, I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that you must have been watching someone else and thinking it was the Bills, or that you think striving to be Flacco-like isn't a problem.

Fitz = Flacco, except Flacco is in the playoffs and isn't getting mauled in the media or by fans the way Fitz is. If you want to rebuild the Bills, QB is way down the list of things that need a solution.

I am 100% confident that if Fitz was playing for BB and McDaniels, he could lead a team like the 2012 Pats to the SB. In fact, if the Bills cut him loose, I would be jazzed to have him on our roster and send Mallett to Arizona or Cleveland for 3rd rounder and a bag of chips.
 
Wow, I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that you must have been watching someone else and thinking it was the Bills, or that you think striving to be Flacco-like isn't a problem.
Fitz isn't a bad NFL QB. We've all seen him make a LOT of great throws over the last few years.

HOWEVER, Fits IS the perfect example of why ball security is the most under rated QB stat of them all. Like Sanchez and others, Fitz's failure is that if you wait long enough, he will inevitably turn over the ball. So for all of Fitz's 300 yd games, he will kill you because he simply doesn't take care of the ball

The guys at Cold Hard Football Facts on their show on Pats.com make a great case that the Jets would have fared much better under Tebow. The crux of their position is although there is no doubt Sanchez is the better passer by far, Tebow simply takes care of the ball better, and between all of Sanchez' fumbles and picks, Tebow's sub par passing, and running is a better option.

This might be a little off topic, but this thought just occurred to me.

You know that we have been critical sometimes about Brady missing open guys deep, usually overthrowing them. Here's a thought. Maybe he overthrows them so often, because if his guy can't get the ball, he doesn't want to risk the pick. Maybe he'd complete more of those deep patterns if he "threw it up for grabs" a bit more, a la Eli. And maybe if he did it, it would add another 4 or 5 picks to his total. Maybe the Pats value ball security to the point where they DON'T often "put it up for grabs and let the receiver make a play" precisely for that reason. And so the next time Brady is criticized for over throwing open receivers deep, I will NOT join in. Don't you just love when you get an epiphany.
 
Fitz = Flacco, except Flacco is in the playoffs and isn't getting mauled in the media or by fans the way Fitz is. If you want to rebuild the Bills, QB is way down the list of things that need a solution.

I am 100% confident that if Fitz was playing for BB and McDaniels, he could lead a team like the 2012 Pats to the SB. In fact, if the Bills cut him loose, I would be jazzed to have him on our roster and send Mallett to Arizona or Cleveland for 3rd rounder and a bag of chips.

Fitz couldn't be Flacco at a Halloween party. They're completely different players. Fitz is who Sanchez aspires to be and who Bengals fans hope Dalton never becomes.
 
BTW- I like the new HC hire in Buffalo. He has a lot of NFL experience in good programs. His record at Syracuse was mediocre, but he rebuilt that program in just 4 years, and it was a BAD program before he got there. Besides the Bills have already done the old HC retreads thing already and have nothing to show for it. Why NOT try a different approach. They can't do worse?

He has some decent front line talent up there. A lot will depend on how well he can recruit a good staff.
 
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BTW- I like the new HC hire in Buffalo. He has a lot of NFL experience in good programs. His record at Syracuse was mediocre, but he rebuilt that program in just 4 years, and it was a BAD program before he got there. Besides the Bills have already done the old HC retreads thing already and have nothing to show for it. Why NOT try a different approach. They can't do worse?

He has some decent front line talent up there. A lot will depend on how well he can recruit a good staff.

I was just about to post a huge WTF over their hire. I dont know the guy, but based on this...

Bills venture into the unknown - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

... it sounds like they've given up!
 
BTW- I like the new HC hire in Buffalo. He has a lot of NFL experience in good programs. His record at Syracuse was mediocre, but he rebuilt that program in just 4 years, and it was a BAD program before he got there. Besides the Bills have already done the old HC retreads thing already and have nothing to show for it. Why NOT try a different approach. They can't do worse?
Did he rebuild the program, or did the exodus of talent from the conference just make it seem that way? If they had moved to the Patriot league and gone 9-3 would you consider that a rebuilding job? Its kinda what happened.

He has some decent front line talent up there. A lot will depend on how well he can recruit a good staff.

Do you really think that? Try this name the 5 most talented players on the Bills (or use whatever number you wish) and find a team that has less talent in its 5 best players.
They probably come out bottom 5 that way.
 
Fitz isn't a bad NFL QB. We've all seen him make a LOT of great throws over the last few years.
HUH???????
You think finding some good throws is the gauge of a good NFL Qb? Every QB on every roster can make good throws.
In the last 3 years he has a w/l record of 15-27 (and by the way many of the posters on this board said they were a huge threat to us all 3 years) has completed a very weak 60% of his passes, and thrown 54 Ints against...yes that is 5 more than Mark Sanchez. I agree he can throw the football pretty well, and he is a terrible NFL QB.

HOWEVER, Fits IS the perfect example of why ball security is the most under rated QB stat of them all. Like Sanchez and others, Fitz's failure is that if you wait long enough, he will inevitably turn over the ball. So for all of Fitz's 300 yd games, he will kill you because he simply doesn't take care of the ball
So how can you say he will kill you in the most important area, but he isn't a bad QB?



The guys at Cold Hard Football Facts on their show on Pats.com make a great case that the Jets would have fared much better under Tebow. The crux of their position is although there is no doubt Sanchez is the better passer by far, Tebow simply takes care of the ball better, and between all of Sanchez' fumbles and picks, Tebow's sub par passing, and running is a better option.
Thats like saying the dull rock would have been a better choice to try to slit your wrists with than the spoon.
They would have lost differently, but they would have lost just as much.

This might be a little off topic, but this thought just occurred to me.

You know that we have been critical sometimes about Brady missing open guys deep, usually overthrowing them. Here's a thought. Maybe he overthrows them so often, because if his guy can't get the ball, he doesn't want to risk the pick.
I thought it was clear to all Patriot fans that Brady throws away from the defender, not to the receiver, a distinction that guys like Sanchez or Fitzpatrick wouldn't even understand.


Maybe he'd complete more of those deep patterns if he "threw it up for grabs" a bit more, a la Eli. And maybe if he did it, it would add another 4 or 5 picks to his total. Maybe the Pats value ball security to the point where they DON'T often "put it up for grabs and let the receiver make a play" precisely for that reason. And so the next time Brady is criticized for over throwing open receivers deep, I will NOT join in. Don't you just love when you get an epiphany.

Have you looked at turnover stats in the BB era? There is no doubt at all they value ball security first and foremost.

From 2000 to today, the Patriots have 280 turnovers in 208 games. 2nd best is 315 (Indy and Jax not counting Houston at 283 in 2 fewer years) and 16/17 (avg) have 355.
We have 35 less turnovers than anyone, and 75 less than average.

It is also very interesting to note that out of those 13 seasons we have 4 of the top 24 fewest turnover seasons (that is out of about 420 season--32x13) and they came in 07,10,11,12.
 
I was just about to post a huge WTF over their hire. I dont know the guy, but based on this...

Bills venture into the unknown - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

... it sounds like they've given up!
Hey, They could have hired Lovie, or some other recycled HC or the latest hot DC or OC. have gotten "rave reviews" by us and the rest of the world's experts.

But that's what they've been doing for the last 15 years, and its failed. Why not pick a guy outside the box, who evidently wowed them in the interview. He does have substantial NFL experience, and showed great leadership in leading the Syracuse program from the depths to respectability.

Hey listen. He may be as bad as the haters think he is. But what's the risk. Is he going to do worse that what Bills fans have had to deal with the last 15 years. What is the old saying.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Whatever you want to say about this decision, its at least different.
 
Hey, They could have hired Lovie, or some other recycled HC or the latest hot DC or OC. have gotten "rave reviews" by us and the rest of the world's experts.
Actually its not. What they have done is hire a bunch of guys who were desperate for a job so they could pay them peanuts.
Gailey failed everywhere he went, even being fired as OC in the preseason.
Jauron was a failed HC, who knew that was his only chance.
Mularkey was a nobody and first time HC
Williams was an unprepared 1st time HC.

They didn't get 'rave reviews' for any of those hires. They got guys who would work for cheap. They have done it again.

But that's what they've been doing for the last 15 years, and its failed. Why not pick a guy outside the box, who evidently wowed them in the interview. He does have substantial NFL experience, and showed great leadership in leading the Syracuse program from the depths to respectability.
Again. what has failed is taking the guy no one else wants who works for cheap
Great leadership? Really? You need to look up GREAT.


Hey listen. He may be as bad as the haters think he is. But what's the risk. Is he going to do worse that what Bills fans have had to deal with the last 15 years. What is the old saying.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Whatever you want to say about this decision, its at least different.
But its not, its bargain basement all over again.
 
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