Buffalo Bills coaching search

[upstater1]

There's plenty of defensive talent there, so I don't want to see Lovie Smith get that job.

No, there's not.

Bills fans have gone over this with me player by player. Very weak LB crew. CBs are sieves. The rook was awful. Good safeties. Kyle Williams is on his downside, lost a lot. Mario Williams simply doesn't care. Chris Kelsay would be lucky to make any team and he was starting in place of Anderson, who himself was not very good. Multiple times the Bills gave up huge points. Not only to New England, but other teams as well--teams not known as offensive juggernauts. In fact, you can easily make the case they have much more talent on offense with a decent OL, excellent RBs, decent WRs, good TEs. Horrible QB though.

This team lacks talent. Go back 12 years in the draft and see their first round picks, almost all are disasters, by the same scouting crew. Time after time they take horrid players like McKelvin and Maybin instead of studs picked right after them, and they drafted 4 RBs high in that period (Henry, McGahee, Lynch, Spiller) while a UDFA (a very good one) lead the team in rushing!!!!!

 

[upstater1]

Is Nix secure as GM? That one's a head-scratcher.

He has one more year at least. He should not be secure.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So whom do we want recently unemployed Scott Pioli inflicted upon, Jets or Bills?

 

[Deus Irae]

No, there's not...

Yes, there is, without question.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, there is, without question.

Gawd, I get to hear these guys dissected day after day. One station is devoted to the Bills 24/7.

Weak across the board at LB.
Weak at both CB positions.
Weak at one DE and the other is a lazy POS making $10 million a year.
At one DT, you have the #3 pick in the draft who hasn't lived up to expectations (he's a good player though).
And at the other, you have a guy that all the analysts up here are certain is past his prime. I'm telling you, Kyle Williams is close to done.

On a long drive around the area, I listened to the radio guys discuss how poor the LB core was, and they were talking about how much stock the Bills were putting into the development of Nigel Bradham. A 4th rounder. Literally, this is the kid they are pinning all their hopes on.

Gilmore may eventually make it, but the fans were down on him as an undersized top pick who was frequently beaten. The other young CB in his second year (a high pick) is a definite bust at this point.

Who exactly are you seeing out there that impresses you other than Dareus and Jarius Byrd?

Because you are the only one I've heard say positive things about the defensive unit.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have to say, I don't understand it. Or maybe I do. Reports are that Chip Kelly is very close to signing with Cleveland, and that he also interviewed with Buffalo. Presumably Cleveland is offering him either more money or more control. Because for the life of me I can't understand why someone with Kelly's coaching scheme wouldn't rather take over Buffalo than Cleveland:

1. Kelly coaches an up-tempo move-based offense. Buffalo has perfect RBs in Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller, a good young OL in place, a good TE in Scott Chandler, and a mobile QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. They have the #8 draft pick, and it's quite possible the Bills could get someone like Geno Smith to plug into their offense. Combine Geno Smith with Spiller and Jackson and you have the start of a very good Kelly-style offense. Guys like Stevie Johnson and Brad Smith would thrive in that kind of scheme. In contrast, Cleveland has no QB with much movement skills, and they're best offensive skill player is a power back who doesn't really fit into Kelly's kind of approach. They have 3 good offensive linemen, but their offensive personnel is built for a power/pro style approach rather than a movement approach.

2. Buffalo has the core pieces of a very good defense. They underachieved in 2012, but with a good DC and some continuity and an additional piece or two they could be much better in 2013.

3. Cleveland plays in the rough and tough AFC North. It will be interesting to see how a move offense does against the defense of Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Baltimore. The Ravens and Steelers are getting a bit old, but all 3 teams finished 8-8 or better. While the Patriots are a formidable obstacle in the AFC East, it's a much smaller hurdle to get ahead of the Jets and Dolphins into wild card contention.

Again, I don't know the specifics of the interactions with ownership and the deals discussed. But stylistically Cleveland just doesn't seem to me like a very natural fit for Kelly, and Buffalo does.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Could not agree more, Mayo, perplexing for those very reasons you cite. My only guess is that the ownership/GM situation at Buffalo seems more problematic to The Chipster. Hard to believe.

I actually like Buffalo and root for them...a bit. Really too bad.

 

[Ivan]

So whom do we want recently unemployed Scott Pioli inflicted upon, Jets or Bills?

I would be surprised if he worked this season. I think he will take it off and look for the best situation, I don't think he will just jump at any opening. It's going to be tough for him because he's a clearly a control freak and wants to call every shot, he's not going to have the pull to dictate what he wants and is going to have to suck it up and be a role playing GM or front office guy instead of The Man.

One thing that does surprise me is that Mangina has not gotten any interest the past few years. he's redeemed himself well at ESPN in terms of demonstrating that he knows the game, and he's actually come across well in that role. The level of publicity and attention he gets at ESPn often leads to offers and his name could crop up as a coach again in the next couple of years. I wouldn't be that shocked if the two of them ended up together.

 

[Frezo]

Again, I don't know the specifics of the interactions with ownership and the deals discussed. But stylistically Cleveland just doesn't seem to me like a very natural fit for Kelly, and Buffalo does.

The Bills are a dysfunctional franchise, the city is dysfunctional as is the region. It's population in 1900 was greater than in 2000. People want out. No way I'd raise a family in Buffalo. Maybe the franchise is cursed or maybe the stadium is built over an Indian burial ground or maybe Wilson drooled on Kelly's Hershey bar. IMO there are more things to consider than just pure football.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Bills are a dysfunctional franchise, the city is dysfunctional as is the region. It's population in 1900 was greater than in 2000. People want out. No way I'd raise a family in Buffalo. Maybe the franchise is cursed or maybe the stadium is built over an Indian burial ground or maybe Wilson drooled on Kelly's Hershey bar. IMO there are more things to consider than just pure football.

Cleveland isn't exactly an urban Mecca.

Regardless, if you're going to put your legacy on the line as an offensive mastermind and make the leap to the NFL, you'd think a guy like Kelly would want to prioritize picking a place here he has the best chance to succeed. Make a success, and he can go anywhere he wants. Flounder, and he's just one in a long line of college guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. Unless he's going to give up his offensive approach, it would seem that he's going to have to find a lot more new pieces in Cleveland than he would have to in Buffalo.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cleveland isn't exactly an urban Mecca.

Buffalo has succession issues, a lousy stadium, a dwindling population, an expensive QB who sucks, issues about what's going to happen with regards to Toronto, etc...

Cleveland just got a new owner who's willing to blow everything up and take risks. IMO, Cleveland is a much better situation for a college coach looking to bring an experimental system to the pros.


Just my $.02

 

[Ivan]

I have to say, I don't understand it. Or maybe I do. Reports are that Chip Kelly is very close to signing with Cleveland, and that he also interviewed with Buffalo. Presumably Cleveland is offering him either more money or more control. Because for the life of me I can't understand why someone with Kelly's coaching scheme wouldn't rather take over Buffalo than Cleveland:

1. Kelly coaches an up-tempo move-based offense. Buffalo has perfect RBs in Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller, a good young OL in place, a good TE in Scott Chandler, and a mobile QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. They have the #8 draft pick, and it's quite possible the Bills could get someone like Geno Smith to plug into their offense. Combine Geno Smith with Spiller and Jackson and you have the start of a very good Kelly-style offense. Guys like Stevie Johnson and Brad Smith would thrive in that kind of scheme. In contrast, Cleveland has no QB with much movement skills, and they're best offensive skill player is a power back who doesn't really fit into Kelly's kind of approach. They have 3 good offensive linemen, but their offensive personnel is built for a power/pro style approach rather than a movement approach.

2. Buffalo has the core pieces of a very good defense. They underachieved in 2012, but with a good DC and some continuity and an additional piece or two they could be much better in 2013.

3. Cleveland plays in the rough and tough AFC North. It will be interesting to see how a move offense does against the defense of Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Baltimore. The Ravens and Steelers are getting a bit old, but all 3 teams finished 8-8 or better. While the Patriots are a formidable obstacle in the AFC East, it's a much smaller hurdle to get ahead of the Jets and Dolphins into wild card contention.

Again, I don't know the specifics of the interactions with ownership and the deals discussed. But stylistically Cleveland just doesn't seem to me like a very natural fit for Kelly, and Buffalo does.

I think players use the criteria of scheme and fit in making decisions about where they are going to go but i'm not so sure coaching prospects do the same. I'm sure it happens where a candidate will see a great fit in personel and go there but i think in general coaches expect to be putting their imprint on the team after they get there so what is already there isn't as big a factor as the fit with ownership and front office and the authority to either make the decisions or have a strong affect on them. We don't get much information on the insider aspect of the negotiations so we don't know what ownership is offering these guys other than money. It could be that Wilson is saying he just wants a coach but the GM will make the personel decisions, whereas Cleveland is saying they want Kelly to make the team in his mold, fast, aggressive, exciting, and are willing to give him the time and authority to create it.

 

[Frezo]

Cleveland isn't exactly an urban Mecca.

Regardless, if you're going to put your legacy on the line as an offensive mastermind and make the leap to the NFL, you'd think a guy like Kelly would want to prioritize picking a place here he has the best chance to succeed. Make a success, and he can go anywhere he wants. Flounder, and he's just one in a long line of college guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. Unless he's going to give up his offensive approach, it would seem that he's going to have to find a lot more new pieces in Cleveland than he would have to in Buffalo.

I'll take Cleveland. Family could be more important to him or at least a major consideration. Look at Saban. He failed miserably in the NFL. He went back to college and is making a fortune. College will always be an option for Kelly.
Buffalo...the place sucks. I wouldn't blame him at all for avoiding it. OTOH he may be still considering it. Who knows?

 

[mayoclinic]

Buffalo has succession issues, a lousy stadium, a dwindling population, an expensive QB who sucks, issues about what's going to happen with regards to Toronto, etc...

Cleveland just got a new owner who's willing to blow everything up and take risks. IMO, Cleveland is a much better situation for a college coach looking to bring an experimental system to the pros.


Just my $.02

Yeah, that was all part of the "or maybe I do" part of my original post. I can understand that all being a factor.

I think players use the criteria of scheme and fit in making decisions about where they are going to go but i'm not so sure coaching prospects do the same. I'm sure it happens where a candidate will see a great fit in personel and go there but i think in general coaches expect to be putting their imprint on the team after they get there so what is already there isn't as big a factor as the fit with ownership and front office and the authority to either make the decisions or have a strong affect on them. We don't get much information on the insider aspect of the negotiations so we don't know what ownership is offering these guys other than money. It could be that Wilson is saying he just wants a coach but the GM will make the personel decisions, whereas Cleveland is saying they want Kelly to make the team in his mold, fast, aggressive, exciting, and are willing to give him the time and authority to create it.

I hope for Kelly's sake that they are willing to back it up. It will take time for Kelly to transform Cleveland in his image. They've just spent a top 3 draft pick on a very good power RB, but one who doesn't fit his scheme. They used their 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft on a vertical threat WR who isn't really oriented towards a movement-based offense. It just seems like they're changing direction 180 degrees. I understand that the ownership has changed and they've brought in Joe Banner, but there were signs that Heckert had started to lay a decent foundation for the Browns, and it will take some patience to rebuild the team.

If you bring in a good pro coach and build on what's already in place, it would seem to me that Cleveland's a year or so away from being competitive. But if you are going to tear up the offense and rebuild it, with the current personnel not suited at all to the new approach, it will probably add another year or two on to the process. So it will require patience on the part of ownership, and from a coach used to success. Just my guess. We've seen owners get cold feet in a hurry, and hot shot college coaches bolt when they found that things weren't so easy in the NFL.

 

[Ivan]

The Bills are a dysfunctional franchise, the city is dysfunctional as is the region. It's population in 1900 was greater than in 2000. People want out. No way I'd raise a family in Buffalo. Maybe the franchise is cursed or maybe the stadium is built over an Indian burial ground or maybe Wilson drooled on Kelly's Hershey bar. IMO there are more things to consider than just pure football.

There's not much Buffalo can do about the demographic changes, it's a region that has been pummeled by the changes in the economic structure of this country, and they simply may no longer be a viable area for a Pro Football team.

The team dysfunction has to come back to Ralph Wilson, regardless of how much Bills fans love him. Like every other owner he needs a great coach/GM to create a stable winning franchise and he is unwilling to give anyone the money to come to Buffalo, and when there are reports he will pay the candidate he wants won't come there. Until he solves that problem, if he does, they will continue to struggle.

On the other hand the likelihood of any new coach having success in the AFCE before Brady and Belichick hang them up is always going to be a problem. They generally last a few years and then change out.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I would be surprised if he worked this season. I think he will take it off and look for the best situation, I don't think he will just jump at any opening. It's going to be tough for him because he's a clearly a control freak and wants to call every shot, he's not going to have the pull to dictate what he wants and is going to have to suck it up and be a role playing GM or front office guy instead of The Man.

One thing that does surprise me is that Mangina has not gotten any interest the past few years. he's redeemed himself well at ESPN in terms of demonstrating that he knows the game, and he's actually come across well in that role. The level of publicity and attention he gets at ESPn often leads to offers and his name could crop up as a coach again in the next couple of years. I wouldn't be that shocked if the two of them ended up together.

The problem with Fredo as an employee in a football organization, say as a DC, is that his boss & peers don't trust him not to backstab them.

 

[mayoclinic]

The problem with Fredo as an employee in a football organization, say as a DC, is that his boss & peers don't trust him not to backstab them.

I think ESPN should create a new football discussion show hosted by Ray Lewis and Mangini. The Stabber and the Back-Stabber.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think ESPN should create a new football discussion show hosted by Ray Lewis and Mangini. The Stabber and the Back-Stabber.

and feature Tweets from OJ's cell

 

[mayoclinic]

If Kelly does take the Cleveland job, I'd do my best to trade back and recoup their 2nd round pick, take Tavon Austin in the 1st, and hope that Tajj Boyd comes out this year (still on the fence). Dump Weedon, start Colt McCoy while working Boyd in. Add Kelly's boy Kenjon Barner in the 3rd round as a change of pace back to Trent Richardson, and suddenly there might be the shades of a Kellyesque offense.

 

[mayoclinic]

and feature Tweets from OJ's cell

Call it "Juice's Corner", with weekly analysis. Like it, PWP.