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Budgets and 1%

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As Obama announces a 'Midwest bus tour' to focus on jobs (like a laser we presume, funny he is copying Palin) I came across 2 articles related to the current situation ie budget deficits and jobs. They do a good job describing the Tea Party position on what the country currently needs and why.


    An Op Ed by Paul Ryan, 'Where is your Budget Mr President'
    Paul Ryan: Where's Your Budget, Mr. President? - WSJ.com


    [​IMG]




    The second is on the impact of GDP growth on the country's wealth and why some regulatory regimes result in impoverishment of the population.

    The Magic of 1 Percent - National Review Online



    [​IMG]
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Really? Is he calling it a "family vacation" and does he plan on hiding his schedule from media and supporters alike?
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    So that's the "difference," huh?

    Get back to me next time The United States suffers through another drought that kills tens of thousands of people, ok?












    [/QUOTE]
  4. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    Shocking facts to me, I would have thought the US was more developed than that in 1850, but if true then Abe Lincoln is the best President in history.
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not just Lincoln but a series of Presidents that for the most part kept the government out of the way of economic growth. This is how during Reagan's Presidency revenues doubled with lower marginal tax rates and inflation was drastically lower than the 70's (Nixon & Carter) when government interfered with the economy a lot.
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I love the notion that all regulations are bad and that none in anyway actually promote a long-term economy or a society's wellbeing.

    (I actually know firsthand that there is far too much government interfering with business -- just like there are too many useless or unjustified laws regulating actual people's personal lives. But simply demonizing regulation as the kind of thing that would result in the US being Burundi isn't productive.)
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  7. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    You know why I feel all regulation is bad? Because it's used to keep small companies out, and allows large companies 1 place it needs to go in order to pay for access and corrupt the system...

    What government regulation ends up doing is block small companies from innovating, and creating artificial boundries while creating legal excuses for Large companies to dodge blame.

    "Well we were approved by the FDA, It's not our fault!"

    What are some good regulations we have that you feel are air tight and essential for our happiness as a society?
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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  9. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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  10. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I didn't see any posts claiming that all regulations are bad (rule of law is necessary for a market economy to function), but I know you two have history of sparring so maybe that is a reference to a previous exchange...

    Anyhow, the problem with too much regulation is that it leads to what mcgraw is alluding to: big companies lobby government to create regs that favor them (as they help to craft the rules).

    For example, the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act" (CPSIA), which was written with the generous assistance of Mattel and other large companies. It essentially cuts the smaller companies (which can't afford the massive labs, etc) out of the market.

    Children’s safety certification may drive away handmade toy companies
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I love the breakdown on Medicare/Medicaid.

    Block grant and freeze spending on the latter; increase premiums on the former.

    That'll go over like a wet fart in an elevator.

    There are a handful of items on this list that are practicable; most of it is just masturbatory libertarian fantasy.
  12. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Net neutrality will kill small business in favor of Large corporations who can pay for the access.
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    No, it's more the mantra many now invoke re. corporate regulation (of course, many of these same people love laws that regulate humans).

    As I noted, I agree there is too much regulation. But when you start looking back to 1850 and making comparisons with Burundi, it's a good sign you're sensationalizing.

    There is a level of consumer protection laws, employee safety laws, child labor laws, anti-pollution laws, etc. that I believe unquestionably protects society and has led to greater, not lesser, economic growth. Having some level of trust in businesses, banks, etc. promotes growth, as you allude to in your parenthetical.

    So the question is how much regulation is the right amount, and reasonable people can and will disagree about the answer to that.
  14. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    You in the early years of our country, our people weren't really empowered to fight against a corporate power... the physical harm employers did int he sweat shops was in fact already illegal according to our laws. However the individual unless rich was not in a position to make claims and be taken serious.

    Now, it's a different world, people have easy access to lawyers, video tapes, information, and ways to get the proof out.

    No country in America can keep breaking the law without someone finally exposing the truth, and therefore regulating that business / industry.

    So I don't believe we need any regulation, my employees are free to go, they are free to work somewhere else, my customers are free to go somewhere else.

    I run a business, I have 3 employees, I have no government contracts, I have no "forced" business... so I have to treat my employees good, and I have to treat my customers even better.

    If I had some no bid congracts and guarunteed contracts from the government, I may not be so inclined to provide the level of service I do becuase, eh... I can't lose the business...
  15. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    I thought the USA was a Country? If you really think big business will regulate themselves without Government mandates then I feel sad for you.

    You want no regulation at all? Right?
  16. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Sorry, I meant no Business in America can keep breaking the law...

    I don't see any real regulation that is truly meant to help the consumer and isn't really used to prop up business with tax loop holes or walls for competition. Or that is a complete waste of tax payer money.

    Meaning the cost is not worth the effect.

    In the end, I rather have all consumer decision left up to me. I trust myself over everyone and anything else. I really have no faith in any institutions.
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    How do lawyers and proof matter if there are no regulations?

    Also, even with increased information, employees aren't always going to have full access to knowledge about a company or working conditions. In a facility that potentially could be dangerous (many factories, plants, etc.), a new worker isn't likely to know if a machine is well maintained, if an oven is sound, if the rail in a silo is sturdy. There is a role for government to help fill that information gap. (Same goes for consumers)
  18. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Because we have Laws that say you can't Kill, Steal, Harm, others... I don't need a regulation to prevent a business from killing me.

    WINNER! ME!!!! This is silly... so someone working somewhere, doesn't know what the working conditions are?

    If you go to work, and you don't like what you do... QUIT!!!!


    I understand your concern on that, again, you have a choice, and if that machine takes your arm... you can sue your employer... if you die, your family can. You can see a fellow worker hurt, you can raise concerns of your overall well being, and you can tell if your employer cares for you.

    If anything doesn't feel right, Quit the job.

    What about Miners? Still dangerous, Fisherman in Alaska, super dangerous...

    Some jobs are dangerous, and each person who works them makes a conscious decisions based about risk and reward.
  19. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Thank goodness you aren't an elected official. The mcgraw_wv platform:

    1. No Government regulations.
    2. No taxes.
    3. I can pay my 3 employees whatever I think is "fair."
    4. Drink water and eat food that an unregulated Company says is safe.

    I do not want to live in your world.
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Criminal laws, yes.

    But you say you want to do away with regulation -- what exactly are you doing away with if you think these laws are still remedies? what is the burden of proof? are "accidents" going to covered, or is it only if the employer was negligent, or only if the lawyer was grossly negligent?


    This isn't about "you don't like what you do" -- did I say that anywhere?

    No, employees often don't know working conditions in terms of their safety. Have you spent much time in plants?

    If you're a long-term employee, chances are you have a good sense for what is dangerous and what isn't -- but that is assuming what currently exists, which is an existing body of regulations and inspections. Those regulations and inspections help rectify the information employees would not know.


    far easier said than done when you need the job.


    right, some jobs are dangerous. But unlike you, I'm not staking out an extreme position here and pretending that all risks can and should be done away with.

    If a mine has structural issues, a potential new employee isn't going to know about it. An inspection can uncover it. If a boat isn't sound, or the captain is incompetent, a potential newby won't necessarily know about it; but inspections and licensing can even up the playing field there, too.

    As I stated earlier, reasonable people can disagree on the right level of regulation. But pretending that no regulations should exist, and that the markets and judicial system can prevent unnecessary risks, is just a extreme and impractical, imo, as pretending we can/should make every job safe.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011

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