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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Turk, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    It is going to be a bumpy ride, for those of us who actually believe in what our type of democracy stands for. Funny thing is, while European, Asian, Middle-Eastern media is all over this, I see next to nothing coming out of our mass media outlets.

    Cable Viewer
  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Another gem of a post from Turk.

    Thanks, man. Looks great but I'll have to wait until tonight to play with this link. Can't wait.

    And you're right. The government/corporate run media will not be talking about this. What's good about this is that the assumption of anonymity is no longer solid, and people will have to communicate in person from now on. People crack me up when they rely on technology to keep them safe!

    Good to hear from the Turk, as usual. Keep us updated on the pending water wars in the Middle East.
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure this was the headline story on the front page of the journal yesterday, and it sounds like the NY Times covered extensively as well. Are other papers and news outlets ignoring it somehow?

    As far as "It is going to be a bumpy ride, for those of us who actually believe in what our type of democracy stands for," I don't think that's the case, at least not exactly. Those of us who believe in the ideals of our nation and democracy, but are realistic about the flaws that our leaders have always had in betraying those ideals, won't find this a particularly bumpy ride. otoh, those who ignore the missteps we've always had as a nation may find this a bit bumpy. (More likely, though, I'm guessing they'll go into some kind of defense mode to preserve their idealistic worldview, either through denial or attack, maybe both.)
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The old one ...

    "of the people, for the people, and by the people" is finally seriously getting exposed as it should be.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This was the top story on BOR last night, and the on the Times front page, as well as the headline on Drudge. Maybe the OP watches NBC or CBS and they're not reporting this. I dunno.

    I'm mixed on the leaks. I'm part ok with it because it reveals the true ideology, or genuine beliefs of those in power. That brings obvious risks and repurcussions, but it does provide a level of involultary transparency never seen in our lifetime. At the same time, I almost want the Assange guy and anyone helping him assasinated (not really, but arrested and locked up at least) because the release of these documents will undoubtedly cost American lives, and hurt this country. Plus, while we all want as much transarency as possible, there is a need for secrecy. Leaders have to be able to offer opinions, or discuss actions without the fear of them being made public. I don't want Obama, his generals, and his cabinet sitting behind closed doors, discussing important issues and actions, worried about what the public might think about what they say there. I want all options being discussed in such situations, without fear for what people might think.
  6. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    Information will set us free. If you thought your government and leaders where sunshine and rainbows then your an idiot, you should not be allowed to vote or own a gun.

    I say keep the leaks coming and great job! If it costs a few lives then so be it, have too break a few eggs to make an omelet. None of the info surprised me at all, I knew we played by the same rules as the world does, nobody stands for anything anymore.

    We will lie,cheat,kill,steal,frame whatever it takes, its the American WAY BABY!:rocker: Don't that make you proud? your the same as the rest of the world......
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I'm not shy....I'll fully admit I'm looking forward to reading about Assange mysteriously being "clipped". That's the risk he knows he's taking by committing espionage (which he is). The man is knowingly accepting secret documents that put America and Americans at risk.

    I wish him very bad fortune.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    RW, I agree with everything you said.

    The thing with Assange, imo, is that he's just the "fall guy" here, mainly because he's the public face.

    The real outrage, to the extent any exists, should be directed at whomever is leaking this information and, to a lesser extent, at anybody whose failings in setting up security on our systems permitted these leaks.

    As for the actual information leaked, I have mixed views. The only thing I really have an issue with is specific information that could put our troops and other personnel in harm's way. While other information, such as personal insults of other nations' leaders, could expose Americans to greater danger, I don't think I'm upset by the possibility that some foreign national or government will take offense and overreact -- in the end I think I put that on whomever commits the acts.
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    He's definately not a fall-guy Chico. If you or I accept US gov't secrets from anyone, then we can be charged with espionage for that act. If we share that information, then we are even more guilty of espionage.

    Look up the text of our laws on espionage and you'll see this guy is guilty. The nice thing is that this law allows us to go after him no matter where he lives.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I would only disagree with calling Assange a fall-guy in this. He's one of the main players. He's choosing to do this with the understanding of all it entails. He's villain (or hero depending on your POV) #1 or #2 in this. He's the "face" of the leaks for sure, but not a fall-guy.

    I care about the personal insults only because it could create some bad blood, and less cooperations between some leaders an governments moving forward, but I'm not overly concerned by them. I find them quite enlightening in a sense. Like I said before, I'm mixed on this. I do enjoy getting an unfiltered look at the inner mind, and inner workings of the people in power.
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    "Fall guy" was probably the wrong term. The point I was trying to make is that whoever has leaked the information is far more to blame, imo, as they almost certainly are US citizens and have either betrayed the nation's trust or permitted that to occur through incompetence or negligence.

    As for the law, I have no doubt he violates it, but is he a US citizen? While we can do what we want, subject to whatever extradition agreements we have, I find it a bit amusing when we try to subject foreign nationals to our laws, given the reaction we would have if our citizens were grabbed up by other countries because they violated those nations' laws.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The best thing about this scandal is that we get to see how the government classifies EVERYTHING as a secret even when it is not warranted because the dorks there can't decide what is really worthy of that status and what isn't. It's a great example of how the government compulsively resists transparency and over-generalizes everything. A prime example is how they claim that, because of this leak, PEOPLE WILL DIE!. It's a perfect cover as- from now on- if anyone dies, it will be the fault of Wikileaks. Classic!
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And not because of imcopetent leaders who lied and led this country to war.. the tail is wagging the dog, again.

    Read somewhere where he is going to release some damning emails generated by a big bank, that should prove interesting.

    If Assange did not release this, there would be another outlet o rvehicle for this imformation to get out..
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is very dangerous and could result in many deaths. For example, The Chicoms have told us that they are ready to abandon the PRNK, this info was leaked by this jerk. The PRNK has Nukes and a crazy paranoid running the asylum. Now they find our their only 'friend' the Chicoms are gonna throw them under the bus. Can you say wounded cornered animal? Very dangerous. The 38th parallel is less than 20mi from Soeul....


    China-North Korea Relations: Beijing Ready To Abandon 'Spoiled Child' Pyongyang, Says Guardian | World News | Sky News


    BTW he has Putin upset and the Russians are after him. Tweaking BO is one thing you don't want to mess with the Russians they take people who embarrass them out.
  15. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I know being young, naive and far left all go hand in hand but, I seriously hope your post was tongue in cheek.
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Dinner and a movie?
  17. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Wikileaks thing is terrific.

    This is really what transparency is all about. Supposedly, Assange also has the hard drive to an executive from a major bank that will be released soon. I think the risk of making government and business more open is far less than the risk of the continued secrecy.

    It's a little difficult to find Wikileaks right now, so if you can't get there, try this:

    http://213.251.145.96/

    It's awful the the way the super powers are ganging up on Assange. I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but I think what they're trying to do to him is just about the most blatant example of corruption in modern history.
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The irony of course Iran became a threat because of Bush and his Saudi allies took out Iraq. The idiots and their followers shifted the balance of power in the Middle East to put Iran on track to become a superpower. A cynical way of looking at this is that this is being orchestrated by financial interests who know that capitalism needs a war in order to get back on track, and a war against Iran would be ideal. They simply have to wait until the American people elect a conservative government again.
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Assange,
    He looks like a Child Molester one of those guys that hangs around school yards with a bag of candy.

    Can anybody on this forum name "The Perfect Country"

    God Damn America

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