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Bruschi analysis - Denver loss

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Oct 13, 2009.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know if he has a ghost writer or what but his analysis is very good.

    Tedy Bruschi's thoughts on the New England Patriots' Week 5 loss to the Denver Broncos - ESPN Boston

    " Recognizing and adjusting to those gadget offensive formations is one thing, but getting back to the original defense called is one of the most difficult checks a defensive signal-caller has to make. So difficult, in fact, that the Patriots burned three timeouts during the game to settle themselves down -- two in the first quarter and one in overtime. The result was that the Patriots played on their heels most of the game in vanilla zone coverages that the Broncos' offense had no problems recognizing and executing against."

    So I guess they looked vanilla because they were vanilla... combine that with zero pass rush and you get 90 yard and 98 yard scoring drives.
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I still maintain that the Pats are doing on defense this year what they did on offense last year. I think they are delibertly pairing back the schemes for the defense to get more comfortable and will open the playbook in the second half of the season when the defense is completely cohesive.
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agree 100%.
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They didn't make the playoffs last year...
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He did not mention the O deficiencies... there were at least 3 and outs..that is uncharacteristic of our team.
  6. Xplicit

    Xplicit Rookie

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    The offensive play calling on 3rd down is complete trash.
  7. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    As a flavor, vanilla gets a bad rep. Vanilla ice cream tastes damn good, people.
  8. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    ?

    Why would you deliberately put yourself in the situation where you might lose games because you make it easeir for the opposition to read your defense?

    And isn't the reason to have training camp and preseason games so you can get comfortable, learn your playbook, and have a cohesive unit? I understand that we have new players, but you look around the league, everyteam has high personnel turnover.
  9. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    Yeah, but vanilla defense only wins championships when you've got a spicy apple crisp offense. Er, :rolleyes:

    Whatever. I am finding myself looking forward to Bruschi's analysis each week. Good stuff.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Very interesting stuff. That explains a lot, unfortunately. I guess the team has to just be better prepared for the wildcat stuff going forward.

    Off-topic, but why would he need a ghostwriter?? The guy knows the game of football and is very articulate. This is great stuff from him.
  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I think what Rob is saying is that BB doesn't feel completely comfident that with all the new and/or inexperienced players on D, that moving to a more exotic defense might be a bit premature. Veterans have said that learning this D can be done in a season, but understanding it can take years. Additionally, from a player-standpoint, it just takes time to gel and get comfortable with each other's tendencies, etc.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  12. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    It is possible that it would benefit the defensive performance early on (as well as down the line) to slowly add complexity into the schemes. Considering the AMOUNT of overhaul, and youth into the defense, it is quite possible.

    Unless you don't believe that the Patriots run a complex defense so it should be just easy to pick up perfectly in training camp. BB will put his players in positions that he is confident they can handle. If they aren't ready for certain schemes or complexity he isn't going to put them in a position that has a high risk of failure.
  13. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    yes they are very vanilla on D but they are playing good a nuff to win

    its the vanilla O that is killing the pat's

    you have the best WR in the NFL in randy moss and he get's one catch ?

    every pass to him dose not need to be a 50 yerd bomb throw a screen to him or a 9 yerd come back just get him the ball


    and are they realy throwing the ball to Morris and not to maroney if they wanna run the ball with him go for it but dose catch's need to go to maroney he has the game brakeing speed not Morris

    line Edelman up one time at wild cat just to give the D some thing to think about

    call a reverse what we welker

    if your going to be a finesse passing team then mix it up a lil have fun with the paly calling

    dont just line up in back yerd shotgun football and think your going to beat a NFL defense on every play

    this team has more talent on offense then every team in the NFL and they cant put up 20 point's a game are you kidding me
  14. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    I don't understand why some fans here think BB is HOLDING BACK plays and formations to save later in the season and meanwhile subjecting his team to increase chances to lose early.

    You don't hold stuff back in this league or you find yourself 2 or 3 games back by the time you want to implement these and that usually gives too much of a hill to climb that is too high to reach the top,so these holding back plays to get the team to gel later makes no sense.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  15. Deus Irae

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    :confused:

    Teams hold plays back all the time.
  16. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    I understand Rob's logic and I can see why he came to that conclusion, I just don't agree with it.

    I think the bigger issue here is our defensive philosophy. We haven't shown any creativity in defense since Mangini left and Pees took over. How much can we blame Bill for our vanilla defense? How responsible is Pees? Who knows?
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Goodness. The point is that BB is not holding back b/c he believes that he'll gain a strategic/tactical advantage later in the season but because he needs to so this D doesn't start running around like the Lost Tribe of Foxboro. I.E they are not ready for the entire playbook.
  18. satz

    satz Rookie

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    You mean like raiders,cheifs,rams etc are holding plays back so they can run them later.?

    When you have a 16 game season and you are holding plays in week 5 you deserve to loss.
  19. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    True, but not to the detriment of the team's success.

    If the plays called are not getting it done and we have better options, I doubt Bill's gonna say "but we have these plays saved for Game 8."
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    In this division you don't wait to unleash these so called secrets

    This is not the AFC West where you only have to worry about San Diego or Denver (whichever of the two you are)- This is a VERY competitive division with 3 teams that have a legit shot to win it and losing a game or even two because of holding back and therefore producing vanilla predictable plays will cost dearly down the line if in fact this idea in here of BB doing this is true.

    The Jets and Dolphins are both very capable of winning 11 games,this division is no longer a cakewalk - you play to win now,tomorrow and into december,no time for slowly gelling in the AFC East anymore it will be a dogfight thru the last week of the season just like last year.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  21. Deus Irae

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    Teams have hundreds of plays, including trick plays. This notion that you don't, or shouldn't, hold some back for the 'right' time is ridiculous.

    Maybe they should use every fake punt in their arsenal over the course of the first 4 weeks?
  22. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    so thats what the whole standing up and throwing two fists wide in the air was all about
  23. Horace's Ivories

    Horace's Ivories PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, in fact certain strains of vanilla bean are, in fact, extremely complex and deep ;)
  24. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    If this team has hundreds of plays 'being hidden' then they are hiding 90% of them right now,this team is predictable on offense after 5 weeks and that IS the problem with the offense at this stage.
  25. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Every team is "predictable" to the masses if it doesn't crack out gimmick plays game after game. That's because the masses don't actually know what plays were called.

    When it comes to critiquing playcalling, one can look to percentages, formations, personnel, etc.... The moment you start with the "predictable" argument without backing it up with explanations and details, you basically become useless in the discussion.

    Brady calling his own number for QB sneaks is pretty damned predictable in short yardage plays when the opponent leaves the center uncovered, by the way. I don't hear too many people crying about that.
  26. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I never thought about this. Great, interesting point.
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many fans feel an offense is predictable because it runs plays out of the formation they are best run out of.
    For example, when we go to the shotgun, we normally pass. While it may be true that this is predictable, it also gives more time to throw. If we use the shotgun on 3rd and 8 does it matter that it was predictable? That one is obvious. However if we spread the field to isolate matchups, THAT is predictable, but also creates a mismatch. By going to the shotgun, we compensate for the predictability.
    The alternative is to not spread the field, not create the mismatch.
    If we line up in the exact same formation every play, we arent predictable but we are pretty easily defended.
  28. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who says anything is being held back?
    We are probably playing 'vanilla' because BB feels it gives us the best chance to win.
    BB at heart is a conservative coach. All of those people out there that think playing all out blitz defense is trying hard and being conservative equals ambivalence do not understand how we have become the dynasty we are.
    Bill Belichick is first and foremost conservative in his approach. Fact is that most very successful coaches also are. Anyone want to make the short list of wildly aggressive coaches who have won SBs?
    I'll start the conservative one
    Chuck Noll
    Vince Lombardi
    Bill Walsh
    Tom Landry
    Bill Belichick
    Bill Parcells
    Don Shula
    I think thats a good start.
  29. crypto

    crypto Rookie

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    How much more vanilla is this year's defense than last year's defense (that's defense, not offense)? I seriously can't remember, but I've been dissatisfied with the play calling for some time now. I feel like Pees* was as conservative last year, when we had a bunch of (old, fat, slow) vets, as he is this year.

    * Placeholder for whoever develops the schemes and makes the calls.
  30. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I could be wrong, but just based on my observations over the years, I think BB implements some of the more exotic elements of the D during the bye week. I say this because (1) it makes sense and (2) they really seem to bring the pressure after the bye week.

    There's no way he holds back just for the hell of it. I think they're not showing the exotic stuff because it hasn't been implemented yet.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
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