Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Terry Glenn is a cowgirl, May 12, 2007.
He is doubly wrong...
Duh, Peyton Manning is the best!!!!!!
Well Manning is better than Favre.
Most respected QB: Brett Favre (?)
Greatest QB of all time: Peyton Manning followed by Dan Marino
Most clutch QB: Joe Montana followed by Tom Brady
I would say Best passer of all time: Manning then Marino
I think the greatest is Montana followed by Marino.
clutch:Montana followed by Brady (I'm very biased)
Of course Unitas has to be somewhere in the equation. Too early to call Manning or Brady the greates ever.
Looks like Brownback just conceded the Wisconsin primary.
All good discussions, sure...
But what a horrible name is Brownback...!! How many states would have been open-minded enough to elect such a senator?
God bless Wisconsin.
I agree 100%... It is not too soon to call Manning the greatest...2 NFL MVPs, SB MVP, Most 4,000 yds seasons, Most TDs in season, etc, etc, etc...If he decides to play as long as Marino or Farve he will break all their records. Except for Farve's INT record.
Elway's win record? No.
Peyton Manning may be the best pure football player of all time. To say otherwise is ridiculous sour grapes. Yes, to Pats fans, he seems a weasily crybaby. I'd prefer Brady is the chips were down, but this stupid hatred of Manning is just that, stupid.
Splitting hairs. They are all Hall of Famers and amongst the elite to have ever played the game at their position. I wish I could had seen Unitas play so that I could adequately evaluate him... as if my opinion would mean much of anything (or that of Sean Salisbury or the Professor either).
I don't think anyone here is putting Manning down. He may or may not be the best QB in the game right now, some pick Brady some pick Manning. But I believe people come up these ratings forgetting the past and only focus in the now.
Manning is an incredible QB, he is an incredibly smart, prepared, talented, tough QB. His preparation and knowledge of the offense is undeniable.
But to say, at this time, that he's the greatest of all time is a bit premature. For my money, if I needed a QB with everything on the line, I'd pick no other QB than Joe Montana. The Super Bowl performance against the Denver Broncos (55-10 I believe) was th single greatest passing performance by a QB that I've ever seen, not bad for a system QB (note the sarcasm). To me he's the greatest QB I've ever seen, I feel there is a difference between a QB and passer. A great QB is not only a great passer, but a great field general, and I have to go with Joe.
Then #2 in my opion is Marino, the greatest passer I've ever seen. Unlike Manning, who may break all of Marino's records, he was never blssed with great weapons. Sure Mark Clayton & Mark Duper were nice receivers, but it was really a case of Marino making them the players they became, as opposed to them being great players, also Marino never really had a great running back. Manning has been lucky enough to have one of the greatest WR's of alltime in Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne aint bad either. Add a great running game,and Manning certainly has had an advantage over Marino.
I think Elway was an incredible talent, maybe the most talented QB of alltime, who played with some subpar teams and somehow got them into Super Bowls (the last 2 teams were excellent). I would rate him as #3 alltime, a great leader, with a rocket arm, the stats to boot, and 2 SB rings.
Brett Favre is on pace to break some alltime records, and probably belongs in the top 5, though I would put Unitas ahead of him.
I think when all is said and done, Manning & Brady may surpass these 3, but it's too early to rate them above them.
John Elway...LOL...John does not even hold the season TD record for Denver, Jack Plummer does. John never threw more than 27 TDs in a season. John's career completion % is only 56. John threw for 4,000 yds only once in his career. Peyton lost Edgerrin James and won a SB. John needed Terrell Davis to win his.
Peyton is nowhere near the greatest QB ever. I think that trophy rightfully belongs to Joe Montana.
I am a life long Pats fan and I too used to not give Peyton the credit he may have deserved because he could not beat our Pats or win the big game. We'll after last year we can no longer say that. And looking back on his career and stats now that he has beaten the Pats and won the big game he is clearly, to me, the greatest QB of all time. I like Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino and etc. But when you look at Peytons career stats and performance it is not even close. Here are just a few.
4,000 yd seasons
Peyton Manning 7
Dan Marino 6
Bret Farve 4
John Elway 1
Tom Brady 1
Joe Montana 0
Career Completion %
Peyton Manning 64
Dan Marino 59
Bret Farve 61
John Elway 57
Tom Brady 62
Joe Montana 63
Career TD to INT Ratio
Peyton Manning 1.97
Dan Marino 1.7
Bret Farve 1.5
John Elway 1.2
Tom Brady 1.88
Joe Montana 1.96
Single Season TD High
Peyton Manning 49
Dan Marino 48
Bret Farve 39
John Elway 27
Tom Brady 28
Joe Montana 31
Career QB Rating
Peyton Manning 94
Dan Marino 86
Bret Farve 85
John Elway 80
Tom Brady 88
Joe Montana 92
The stats go on and on. If you project his numbers out to 17 seasons like Marino then he will own all the nfl records.
I also think Tom Brady has gotten a couple of free passes from us the last two seasons. Look at what has happened;
2006-2007 AFC Championship - 4th QTR Peyton drives the length of the field on Pats for gaming winning score. Tom thows INT to end game.
2006-2007 Playoff Game - Tom has bad game with QB rating 57.6 If Troy Brown doesn't turn INT into fumble then season over for Pats.
2005-2006 Playoff Game - Tom throws game breaking INT to Champ Baily in end zone. Tom is trying to throw the ball to Troy Brown who is being covered by the best cornerback in the game.
Please consider the source. Is Sam Brownback right about anything? Sorry, I take this back...the comment belongs in the political threads.
Which counts more towards being a great QB; Winning Games or Stats. Now lets forget about Brady and Manning when discussing this.
You want a guy that is a great field general, who can make the plays when they need to be made, a guy who knows how to win football games. Being able to read defences and make the smart choice. I know only good QB's have great stats so I am discounting them as being a good indicator, but I feel that a great QB has to be someone who you would want to be in a foxhole with! When you play with him you feel that your gonna win cause he is there.
I just feel it is more than stats to it, you want a guy there who you can say this guy is the man and with him were not gonna lose......
Manning's stock as a QB has never been higher and of course whispers of being 'the greatest ever' will surface, but it's not right to judge his career at the pinnacle. Brett Favre was going to be the 'greatest ever' after getting a ring and 3 consecutive MVP awards. Brady was going to be the 'greatest ever' after 3 SB's in his first 4 years. No active QB can be declared 'greatest ever' but they can be in the conversation, IMO.
Manning and Brady are the top 2 QB's in the league, and Manning has had quite a run over the past few years, but remember those are 3 EXTRA years of experience over Brady. Their numbers through 80 starts are quite similar (on a per attempt basis), and Brady is STILL a better postseason QB statistically than Manning.
Last season I quit arguing Brady/Manning because when Branch was traded, #12 was throwing to John Q. Wideout while Manning was still throwing to Harrison/Wayne. It was impossible to compare the 2 under these circumstances, yet Brady still almost pulled through. Now the landscape has changed again, Brady has comparable weapons and a faster track at Gillette. We'll see where Brady's numbers go from here. I have a feeling he'll be in the MVP conversation in 2007.
Not only as Manning thrown to two all pro's.....but he has thrown to them for just about his entire career. Think about the kind of repore all three of them have together. There is no doubt in my mind.....Brady would run away with the Brady vs. Manning debate, if he was put in the same position. Manning should be able to run that offense with his eyes closed by now. I don't wish injury on anyone....but I must say, I wouldn't mind seeing both Wayne and Harrison go down with minor injuries for a few weeks....just to see how Manning would cope.
Separate names with a comma.