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Broncos offer Detriot the Kitchen sink for #2

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by FreeTedWilliams, Apr 25, 2007.

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  1. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From KFFL:
    Broncos | Team makes offers for second overall pick
    Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:12:52 -0700

    Nicholas Cotsonika, of the Detroit Free Press, reports the Denver Broncos have made two offers to the Detroit Lions involving the the second overall pick, according to the Denver Post. The first offer included LB Al Wilson and the Broncos' first-round pick. The second offer involved the Broncos' first-, second- and third-round picks in the 2007 NFL Draft, as well as their first-round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft.

    That's picks 21, 56, 86,and a #1 next year (Denver owns Washington's 3rd round pick (70), but I'm assuming that they would trade their own 3rd rd pick which is 86. If I'm Detriot, I take this trade in a heartbeat. Obviously the Broncos are targeting Calvin Johnson. I'm sure that the trade would not be consumated until after the Raider's pick, but it would be a tough one to turn down. I wonder what the Broncos would do if Detroit said that the trade has to be done before the draft? That's a big gamble for Dnever either way.

    If they did it, Detroit would own picks 21, 34, 56, 66, & 86 plus Denver's #1 next year (and they will be starting basically a rookie QB, in a division where they have to play San Diego twice, I'd take it!
  2. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    Didn't Denver release Wilson?
  3. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    yes, but Shanahan had to see if Matt Millen really was THAT stupid

    apparently he's only very stupid and not wicked stupid...
  4. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They only Officially waived him on the 24th..

    http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511

    But Millen is holding out for John Elway too.

    I wonder if Millen is smart enough to take this trade? Of course instead of just one pick to screw up, he would have 7! That just might be too much presser for him.
  5. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Millen can't make this trade, I don't care how many additional picks he gets. If your first pick is #21, you're not going to get the guy you covet (Gaines Adams).

    The only way this works as if Denver and Detroit enlist the help of a third team, like Washington. Then Detroit trades #2 to Denver for #26, #56, & #86 and the first next year (probably late in the round). Detroit then flips the first in 2008, #26, and another pick to Washington for the #5 pick.
  6. Irish Hooligan

    Irish Hooligan Rookie

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    :rofl:
    :rofl:
  7. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I don't care who you covet. That is complete layup of a deal for a team with holes all over the place and it would be a big mistake to pass it up.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  8. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I tend to agree. Adams just isn't big enough to plug all the holes on that team. Trading his rights for, say, Jamaal Anderson AND Daymeion Hughes AND Kevin Kolb AND a 2008 #1 looks pretty good to me.
  9. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    That's the same mentality that leads to trades such as LaDanian Tomlinson for Heath Evans, Kelley Washington, Eric Alexander, and Russ Hochstein. Trade a great player to fill four holes on the roster.

    More does not always equal better. There's a reason why analysts tend to evalute trades based on who gets the better player. Trading from #2 to #5 and netting an extra pick is a great idea. Trading #2 to net #10, #16, and #48 is a pretty good idea. Trading #2 to net #26, #56, #86, and future #26 is a terrible idea. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. (Of course, we need to assume that players are going to live up to their draft spot).
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  10. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Hershel Walker comes to mind.
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Two ways to think about this, if Detriot is passing on a QB at #2.

    1.) If Detriot has a player targeted, but that player is not worthy of the second overall pick, but is a top 5 or 6 pick, then they should not trade with Denver.

    2.) If Detriot does not have a player targeted, but wants depth at several positions, then they should wring every last draft pick they can out of Denver and hope that some QB in this draft, not named Russell or Quinn can be their QB of the future and would be available at #26 or #56.
  12. theONLYJerseypatsfan

    theONLYJerseypatsfan Rookie

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    I would love to see this trade happen and then johnson breaks his femur during training camp.....stupid donkeys
  13. theONLYJerseypatsfan

    theONLYJerseypatsfan Rookie

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    You can get all the receivers you want, with Jay Cutler (Who I cant stand and couldnt stand all through college) throwing at them they are nothing but window dressings!
  14. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Not really. Gaines Adams is just as likely to turn into the next Jamal Reynolds than he is to become the next Robert Porcher. With three extra picks you're much more likely to get it right.
  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Has anybody given one thought to the fact that IF CJ blows his knee out, he is not the same receiver? That 4.3 speed is gone. No one player is worth an entire draft. I would also laugh (considering my hate for the Broncos) if Detroit made them do it now and Oakland takes Johnson with the first overall pick.
  16. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Take the deal and run, Milly. As someone else pointed out, you'd have beaucoup picks to try and trade back up to get the guy you wanted in the first place. This is a no-brainer.

    Then again, what happens when a no-brainer is presented to a guy with no brain? Is it like a double negative? Will Millen respond with "Grape!" or start making shadow puppets? Inquiring minds want to know!
  17. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    Wow the second deal is laughable. If I was Detroit I'd do it in a second.
  18. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree, unless it is a John Elway, Carson Palmer or another cannot miss player at a premium position (not WR) then I would go for productive cheap quantity over a single very expensive prospect.

    Not extensive research by any stretch, but this article summarizes the cost/benefit of a top 5 pick.

    Four day 1 picks can build a lot of depth, and on the Lions likely produce at least 2 starters. The total cost of these players would be much less than the contract of the #2 overall.

    Leaving Hochsteein and Alexander out of the equation, would you trade Maroney, Wilfork, Hobbs and David Thomas for any WR in the NFL? Lots of holes in the roster if you do.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  19. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Well the problem is that we're not dealing with draft picks, we're dealing with known quantities. The other problem is that we're comparing the Lions "brain" trust with the Patriots brain trust. But if I'm going to trade #2, I'd much rather have #5 and #18 than have #26, 56, 86, and a late first rounder next year, regardless of what the draft chart says.

    Doesn't this match up with what many of us have been saying the Patriots should do? That since there are 18(?) first round grades that we should trade up. I mean, we can keep trading down and trading down and finally end up with 32 sixth rounders and 32 seventh rounders . Doesn't mean we should, even though chances are a few of those 64 players will be solid pros.
  20. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I agree, the trade blows for Detroit. You don't trade a silver dollar, #2 overall, for a dime #21, and a bunch of nickels. Even adding next years #1, which could be anywhere from #20-30, isn't wise for Detroit. Now, mixing in Washington like you mention is a good idea. Detroit has to get a pick inside #10 to start with. If they don't, they need quality picks, plus a quality player in return. Getting an established commodity lessens the risk of a recieving a late first.
  21. theONLYJerseypatsfan

    theONLYJerseypatsfan Rookie

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    Speaking of dollars and cents, this trade would also be good for detroit because it keeps detroit safe from salary problems a #2 pick can cause. How is it that denver does this every year and doesnt just implode from salary cap problems
  22. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Well, unless they traded away their 2008 first-rounder, they'd own Denver's and their own, which will probably be pretty high, as they aren't going to contend in 2007. If I were Millen, I couldn't take this deal fast enough.
  23. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Millen pulls this predraft "trade offer" crap annually. It's what substitutes for personnel brilliance in Detroit. They can giggle in the office about how clever they are. Shanahan is in on it, trying to Jedi mind-trick Al Davis. He wants Al to realize that C. Johnson will torment the Raiders for years if he passes on him. When Shanahan really wants something, nobody knows anything about it, like last year with Cutler where no Bronco even spoke to Cutler or his agent prior to the draft day trade.
  24. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    excellent post
  25. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    If I'm Detroit, unless Champ Bailey is part of the donkey's trade package, then I would politely tell the Constipated Face to piss-off.
  26. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL...

    Shanahan: "Jemarcus Russel is not the Quarterback you've been looking for"...

    Al Davis: "This is not the Quaterback, we've been looking for"

    Shanahan: "You can draft, Calvin Johnson now"

    Al Davis: "We will draft Calvin Johnson...."

    Shanahan: "Move along".......
  27. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You know what really grinds my gears? When these aren't the droids we're looking for.
  28. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :rofl:Al Davis is a Stormtrooper? Now that explains a lot....

    I wonder if BB is Yoda. " Faith in base 3-4 against pass happy teams have you must. Pressure on the quarterback good to get it is".
    "Hmmm, Manning. Fear of the pass rush in him I sense".
  29. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'd have to take that if I'm Detroit as well - knowing that their front office can't draft to save their lives, having that many picks would help the blind squirrel find a nut.

    The drafting system actually penalizes perrenially bad teams in my opinion. Teams that, either because of bad draft picks and/or other dysfunctionality issues year in year out and wind up having year after year of very very very expensive Top 5 picks eating up a large proportion of their salary cap will generally STAY bad - making the situation worse and worse, especially if they continue making bad and costly mistakes with their top draft choices.

    It makes much more sense for a bad team to trade down for quality depth instead of using all their money on one high draft pick who can't make a difference because the rest of the team sucks so bad.

    Frankly I think it would be fair to let the worst team decide where it wants to pick, if indeed it can't work out a trade (in some years, no team might want to spend the money paying a #1 pick - why penalize the worst team that way?)

    Maybe the player they want and need could be had at #5 instead of #1 - they shouldn't have to pay the guy they want and need #1 money if he's not worth it to them or to anyone else.

    The #2 team would have the same option once the #1 team decided where it wanted to pick.

    Taken to an extreme the #32 team could be forced to pick #1 in a year when no one wants to expend that sort of money - but that of course would never happen. I'd probably suggest just keeping that to the top 5 or 10 draft picks anyways.

    It'll never happen but it is an interesting notion.
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