Broncos fire Shanahan

[Seneschal2]

Of all of the teams, Denver was the ONLY team that concerned me. ONLY because of Shanahan. To the NFC please...

 

[AzPatsFan]

When Shanahan got fired, Bowlen said he didn't fire the Coach; he fired the General Manager. It just happened to be Shanahan in both cases.

When Spanos resolved the patty-cake fight between AJ and Marty, by firing Marty, he said: AJ gets to hire the Coach. If he fails, I get to fire AJ... and his Coach.

Norv Turner certainly deserves to be retained Right ? Beeeep!!

Now Spanos has to find a GM and Coach. Shanahan is available to do both! He would be the best Coach the Bolts have had since... Marty!, or Coreyell, or Sid Gillman.

 

[WhiZa]

Cowher would make a lot more sense on the Jets as he runs a 3-4. If Shanahan came in he would need to do a lot of personnel changes like Mangina did in his first few years.

 

[DW Toys]

Everybody here is talking about the Jets. If Shanahan takes another job, I think it might be the Cowboys. Despite what Jones is saying, I don't think Wade is going to last that much longer there and Shanahan is a Super Bowl winning head coach.

Agreed.Jones will have to but t out. Wade is a better DC.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

isnt there a connection between he and al davis?

or am i thinking bill walsh?

didn't davis almost hire him?

Shanny was the Oakland Coach. Davis fired him!
DW Toys

 

[Rob0729]

Shanny was the Oakland Coach. Davis fired him!
DW Toys

Not only did he fire him. He refused to pay him money owed to him on his contract saying Shanahan was fired for cause. Shanahan and Davis hate each other with a passion.

 

[BPF]

When Shanahan got fired, Bowlen said he didn't fire the Coach; he fired the General Manager. It just happened to be Shanahan in both cases.

When Spanos resolved the patty-cake fight between AJ and Marty, by firing Marty, he said: AJ gets to hire the Coach. If he fails, I get to fire AJ... and his Coach.

Norv Turner certainly deserves to be retained Right ? Beeeep!!

Now Spanos has to find a GM and Coach. Shanahan is available to do both! He would be the best Coach the Bolts have had since... Marty!, or Coreyell, or Sid Gillman.

I read on PFT that there is something going on behind the scenes in San Diego with Shanahan but I think KC is where he will end up.

 

[mgcolby]

Fair enough on the sarcasm. We can reject outright the investigation declaration that "These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

Right cashflow issues, don't go to a bank or the league for a gap loan. Nope just circumvent the salary cap by restructuring..uh..I mean "defering" payments for your two best players and it was believed several other players as well.

Who were the free agents brought in during that period? Who were the players in danger of leaving? While it would be ridiculous to say $14.5 million/year for 2 years from Davis and Elway's contracts, or 40% of the total salary cap would be insignificant if designed to bring in or keep key players, if you cannot point to major player personnel transactions during that period (and they would seem to be readily available) then the allegation is no more than the baseless claims thrown at the Patriots. I believe Denver's violations were far more egregious given the possible competitive advantage implications, but I would challenge you to find facts that support the allegation unless you are willing to accept allegations that the Patriots stole three titles with their practices. I really don't put much stock in either accusation and believe both teams won because they deserved to win. They find themselves in the playoffs way too often for the occasional titles to be the product of flukes or cheating (meaning they violate the rule, come under scrutiny and still return to the playofs).

You challenge me to find facts, fine. But do you really think they didn't sign anyone in 1997 or 1998? Here is what they did to sure up their defense.

Without much effort here is a couple, but more importantly notice the wording in the articles. They were capped strapt yet they found money.

In 1997 they signed Keith Traylor (couldn't find his contract numbers). Along with Neil Smith to a one year deal:

The Denver Broncos, having freed up money under the salary cap by restructuring JOHN ELWAY's contract, signed the five-time Pro Bowl defensive end NEIL SMITH yesterday to a one-year contract.
Smith, 31, ranks as one of the top sack artists in the National Football League with 86 in his career. After getting 12 sacks in 1995, however, he fell to just 6 last year, and the Kansas City Chiefs informed Smith last week that they could not afford to re-sign him.

And then in 1998 they managed to find enough money to resign him:
the Pro Bowl defensive end Neil Smith signed a four-year, $13.6 million contract with theBroncos yesterday, ending speculation about whether the Super Bowl champions would find enough money to keep the free agent. Smith's contract includes a $3.2 million signing bonus.
The 6-foot-4-inch, 278-pound Smith joined the Broncos after nine seasons with the Chiefs before Kansas City made it clear a year ago it would not sign him as a free agent.
Despite missing two games with an injured triceps, Smith had 8regular-season sacks for the Broncos. (AP)

The year after and still during their violation era:

DENVER, Feb. 17 (UPI) _ As first reported Tuesday by ESPN, the Denver
Broncos have raided the ranks of their most hated rival, the Kansas
City Chiefs, to sign veteran cornerback Dale Carter. Various media
reports indicate the deal is for a whopping $38 million over six years,
with an $8 million signing bonus.

And if your point was Shanahan is a lousy coach or overrated, we can agree to disagree. His two titles came when the NFC had a stranglehold on the Lombardi for almost 15 years. With a .600 winning percentage and 146 wins in a tough division, I am no Broncos fan (they rate about 3rd on my list of hated teams) but I will give credit where credit is due.

Nope not at all I think he is a good coach, but remember they have now violated the cap twice!

 

[ayjackson]

Cowher would make a lot more sense on the Jets as he runs a 3-4. If Shanahan came in he would need to do a lot of personnel changes like Mangina did in his first few years.

I'm not sure he'd care what defence they ran, he isn't a defensive coach. Though Denver did switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 after Shanahan was hired, I'm not sure how long after and what the impetus was.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Please, PLEASE keep him away from the Meadowlands. Shanahan, for all of his recent failings (and there have been more than a lot of people realize), coaches EXTREMELY well against BB's Pats. I do not want to see him twice a year.
..

Which means that next year's game versus Denver just got easier without Shanahan there.....

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not sure he'd care what defence they ran, he isn't a defensive coach. Though Denver did switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 after Shanahan was hired, I'm not sure how long after and what the impetus was.

You are aware that he was talking about Bill Cowher, right?

 

[Fanfrom1960]

isnt there a connection between he and al davis?

or am i thinking bill walsh?

didn't davis almost hire him?

As has been explained below, Shanahan had the (in)famous connection with Al Davis, but Bill Walsh did actually work for the Raiders too. He was hired in 1966 to be their running backs coach. Davis was off being commish of the NFL that year. Maybe Walsh worked under Davis in 1967.

 

[Disco Volante]

Jay Cutler on firing...

I'm disappointed, I'm shocked, I'm not happy about it, I'm not pleased with it at all. We had zero inkling this was going to happen. I didn't have a clue.

I think, with the offensive staff we had, we were moving ahead, I had just met with Mike to go over everything, talk about the things we wanted to do, make sure we were going the right way on offense

I hope it all works out. But I know I'm disappointed, I'm not happy, and it's a lot to think about. I just want to continue the things we were able to do this year on offense and get better all the time.

 

[Krugman]

Funny,I thought he was Teflon,but ,as many here gave already said,his teams record since they lost Elway and TD has been lousy.How many years did he have left on his contract,anyone know?

 

[MassPats38]

How many years did he have left on his contract,anyone know?

He had 3 years left.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

This was a big suprize to me (and Shanahan) he will not remain unemployed long. I hope that he does not go to the JETS!

If I was Mike Singletary I would have called him already and offered him the OC job in San Fran (not that I think he would take it) but his offense would easily fit in there, with Gore and a mobile QB.

Any team with an intrenched and sucessfull defense should be knocking on his door today. His running game coupled with a very good defense would make almost any team an instant contender.

I can only hope that this throughs the Broncos into a tailspin for next year, and that they appear earlier in the schedule for the Pats.

BTW Shanahan hates Al Davis, and takes shots at him every chance his gets, so he is not going to the Raiders.

His firing might also lead to some more cannings, as some owner is going to say, hell I can have Mike Shanahan.

 

[MassPats38]

Right cashflow issues, don't go to a bank or the league for a gap loan. Nope just circumvent the salary cap by restructuring..uh..I mean "defering" payments for your two best players and it was believed several other players as well.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the violation, nor do I claim it does not raise huge flags in the way of competitive advantage. The point was the NFL could easily discover who arrived by way of free agency during the period 1996 to 1998 (in 1995 they were 8-8; in 1996 they were 13-3; if the actual violations in forming contracts took place in 1996 then that would likely help them add players in 1997) to see if they were big players in the market. Frankly, I do not recall anything stated during those games of huge new additions that brought them to a title, but that was a decade ago.

You challenge me to find facts, fine. But do you really think they didn't sign anyone in 1997 or 1998?

As above, I'm not claiming they did or didn't (I simply do not remember the names added and I definitely do not remember the outrage I would have felt if a team I really don't like illegally added the sort of big names it could have acquired with that much money - the media would have been labeling Shanahan as a boy genius in personnel management during those years, and I do not remember that story line). You had made the claim Shanahan stole those titles using the violation. Those were actually rhetorical questions to test your theory that they used the money to build a team to win it all. The NFL said nothing about competitive advantage, but with readily available information it would not be hard for the league to figure that out for itself. Unlike the Spygate stuff which involved an internal organizational practice that would go uncovered without a mole (or a rat), personnel issues/transactions really are not (with the obvious caveat that side agreements with current players only reveal themselves when those players sue the organization for breaching the agreement).

We can go into conspiracy theory on whether the NFL kept the competitive advantage determinations quiet, but I cannot find any articles on a quick look (I heavily researched that issue during Spygate but never really found an article with hard facts, just the basic money findings and the players involved) that spell that out. I will acknowledge that Shanahan could have brought in a ton of high price players with that much money. Not recalling huge roster changes, I was just asking you if you remember those names as you sounded sure he did so if claiming he used that money to gain a competitive advantage.

I think he is a good coach, but remember they have now violated the cap twice!

That was my major concern with your initial post - whether Shanahan needed to cheat to win and was therefore not a good coach at all. I would never claim his record is unblemished or that he comes with no baggage as he chose a hugely important area of team management in which to break the rules. It would be tough to claim he merely pushed the limits of the cap rules based on a misinterpretation as the salary cap began with the 1994 season, a good two seasons before the violations took place.

 

[mgcolby]

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the violation, nor do I claim it does not raise huge flags in the way of competitive advantage. The point was the NFL could easily discover who arrived by way of free agency during the period 1996 to 1998 (in 1995 they were 8-8; in 1996 they were 13-3; if the actual violations in forming contracts took place in 1996 then that would likely help them add players in 1997) to see if they were big players in the market. Frankly, I do not recall anything stated during those games of huge new additions that brought them to a title, but that was a decade ago.

The violations ocurred from 96-98. Neil Smith and Keith Traylor were brought in specifically to sure up the defense. And that is what Shanahan felt cost them the division round against Jacksonville in 96.

As above, I'm not claiming they did or didn't (I simply do not remember the names added and I definitely do not remember the outrage I would have felt if a team I really don't like illegally added the sort of big names it could have acquired with that much money - the media would have been labeling Shanahan as a boy genius in personnel management during those years, and I do not remember that story line). You had made the claim Shanahan stole those titles using the violation. Those were actually rhetorical questions to test your theory that they used the money to build a team to win it all. The NFL said nothing about competitive advantage, but with readily available information it would not be hard for the league to figure that out for itself. Unlike the Spygate stuff which involved an internal organizational practice that would go uncovered without a mole (or a rat), personnel issues/transactions really are not (with the obvious caveat that side agreements with current players only reveal themselves when those players sue the organization for breaching the agreement).

They "restructured" Elway's contract in 97 to be able to sign Neil Smith. And then they "restructured" TD's contract in 98 to be able to sign Smith long term. They would have had to cut players in 98 to be able to stay within the cap, instead they magically made room by players taking "pay cuts". And then proceeded to win their second superbowl.

We can go into conspiracy theory on whether the NFL kept the competitive advantage determinations quiet, but I cannot find any articles on a quick look (I heavily researched that issue during Spygate but never really found an article with hard facts, just the basic money findings and the players involved) that spell that out. I will acknowledge that Shanahan could have brought in a ton of high price players with that much money. Not recalling huge roster changes, I was just asking you if you remember those names as you sounded sure he did so if claiming he used that money to gain a competitive advantage.



That was my major concern with your initial post - whether Shanahan needed to cheat to win and was therefore not a good coach at all. I would never claim his record is unblemished or that he comes with no baggage as he chose a hugely important area of team management in which to break the rules. It would be tough to claim he merely pushed the limits of the cap rules based on a misinterpretation as the salary cap began with the 1994 season, a good two seasons before the violations took place.

I think Tagliabue was more media savvy than his successor. He realized making a huge **** storm out of it was bad for business. Unlike Goodel who overreacted to a minor infraction to prove a point that no rules shall be broken. Which ultimately kicked off the idiotic public overreaction. It wasn't a conspiracy just good PR.

Bottom line the Broncos definitly don't win the superbowl in 98 without cheating the cap as they were in cap hell and should have been forced to cut high salaried players, not resign them. 97 is debatable but Neil Smith was a beast for them and without the Elway crap they don't have the cap space to sign him or Traylor for that matter. I don't know who they signed in 96 and honestly don't care to look it up. But no matter how you shake it he won two superbowls in a stretch where they took a page out of Ed Debartalo Jr's (more Carmen Policy) book and cheated the cap!