briz's new 5 round pats mock

[JDP111]

here is a pretty accurate scouting report on Gooden.

Position: ILB/OLB
School & Year/Status: Miami - Senior
Height & Weight: 6'2 - 238 lbs.
40-Time: 4.45

Linebacker Tavares Gooden is a great athlete, but it is his experience that separates him from the rest. In 2003, Gooden made his mark on special teams. In 2004, he spent most of the season starting at the weakside linebacker spot and he moved to the strong side in 2005. He missed most of that year with a dislocated left shoulder, but he started to show his potential as a junior and solidified his leadership of the linebacker corps during his senior campaign.

During his senior season, Gooden led the team with 100 tackles. However, he had just three tackles for loss. The former track star will have little problem chasing down the opposition in the NFL laterally, but he will need to find more balance between speed and strength if his new team wants him to be able to shed blockers and get into the backfield.

You cannot teach speed and somebody will take a look at his quickness and experience and take Gooden during the first day of the draft. At the very least, Gooden is a quality special teams player in the NFL, but he is smart enough and experienced enough to get some quality snaps at linebacker as a rookie as well.

Im not looking for Gooden to come in and start, im not looking for him to be Rey Maualuga. He isnt that. What he is is a young athletic fast linebacker that can provide some needed speed to this team and i believe he can contribute heavily on special teams and provide depth on the inside, with possibly growing into a starter roll with some experience under his belt. I see potential in him hes got alot of qualities you look for in a linebacker.

Yeah, Belichick loves ILB's that have trouble shedding blocks and disrupting plays in the backfield.

I am hoping that they can draft Goff.

 

[ATippett56]

1st Round Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB from Ohio State
2nd Round Tracy Porter, CB from Indiana or Brandon Flowers, CB from Virginia Tech
3rd Round Charles Godfrey, CB from Iowa or Brandon Flowers, CB from Virginia Tech
3rd Round Tashard Choice, RB from Georgia Tech
4th Round Jonathan Goff, ILB from Vanderbilt
5th Round Spencer Larson, ILB from Arizona

 

[JDP111]

With the second pick in the third, I'd like to see the Pats grab Chad Rinehart, OG, Northern Iowa. He's a beast and seems to be a smart, athletic, versatile OL addition. The Patriots need to address the o-line in the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

President DaBruinz-I respect you positions and opinion. I didn't realize you are smarter than all the other fans who write into this site. I will watch my tongue. It's amazing how many people can shout down another person who might suggest their own comment and opinion. It shows very average intelligence on the shutees' part. One might call them boorish.

You win! Your right! Everything You said was 100% correct and all of my own opinions were wrong even if they are my own. Damn!
To all who view the NE Pats Forum....I was wrong and deserve all of this misery. Please accept my apology.

Oi Vei. Another whiny person who can't stand having the facts put in front of him.

Also, I did not call YOU stupid. I called the idea of being able to trade Kaczur and the 1st for Ed Reed stupid. I would think you'd understand the difference. I guess not.

Is there a site for dumb fans like me with their own opinion that I can visit? I like to find all of the "stupid idea" folks and band together so we don't insult the intellect of people like this gentleman. I didn't realize you work for the Pats F.A......Say, you're not really B.B. are you?

*rolling his eyes* Its not a matter of intellect. Its a matter of actually watching the games and participating in the conversations and admitting when you are wrong. Something you clearly don't have a clue as how to do.

Let's take a vote all you other "stupids". Has James Sanders wowed you? Can he tackle? Can he make plays? Can he cover? His "4.62" translates to a 5.0 on the field in my opinion....Opps!

You might actually want to READ what is written for a change. All I said is that the facts showed you to be talking out your arse.

Now, since you don't understand the difference between a STRONG safety and a FREE safety, let me explain it to you. A free safety is more of a cover safety and is relied upon to do more coverage of the extra wide receivers. He also tends to be the one to drop back and play the center-field position in the Pats defense. The Strong Safety has more power and is more effective against the run. YES. Sanders does a helluva job tackling. I've seen Sanders make plenty of plays. Yes, he'll miss one here or there, but so do players like Rodney Harrison and Randy Moss. Even Tom Brady.

As for your "opinion," its uneducated at best and contradicted by many of the facts.

Friend, can you at least give the less informed and those unfortunates with less-than-your-superb-intellect responders, a chance to at least suggest our views?

You have every right to express your views. NOTHING is stopping you from that. However, I have just as much right to express MY OPINION about your uneducated opinions. I did that and supported them with the FACTS. That's the whole part of the Freedom of Speech that people like yourself forget about.

I am not wrong about Sanders so nini-nini ha,ha! Then lets get rid of the old dude Kaczur. Do some investigating and see what Whitten weighed when drafted by the Cowboys. What was Thomas 240-245 at Texas?

Yes, you are wrong about Sanders. No matter what you think. Many people have talked about drafting a future LT, playing him at RT and moving Kaczur to the bench as a swing guy.

Unlike YOU, DW, I do my homework. Jason Witten was 6'05 6/8" and weighed 264 lbs at the combine when he was drafted. David Thomas was 6'3 1/8" and weighed 252 lbs at the combine. Thomas was playing at 250-260 at UT. That doesn't change the rest of the issues that I brought up about Tamme.

I'd hate to go to a party and say something that you don't agree with! And finally what's coming out my ass Mr.Pompous, is that if Silva can be had in the late rounds he could be a decent pick up. I, and this is just my opinion so don't yell at my other "Stupids" out there, think he would play better than Sanders, but then again what do I know. Certainly not more than you. You win!
DW Toys

Unfortunately for you, I do know more. And you've been taken to task over Sanders by other posters on this board on several occasions. So stop acting like the pompous ass you claim me to be.

You makes claims about players without actually doing the homework you claim. Just because its your "OPINION" doesn't mean the facts support your claims. Unfortunately for you, the facts have shown you to be wrong on numerous cases.

So, DW, instead of acting like a victim and making a total arse of yourself by exaggerating what was said, how about you actually do some homework yourself on the players you mention. See what some of the scouting sites say about them. Look at what the red flags are and see if those are things that the Patriots can improve through coaching. If they are, great, then it would be a non-issue. If not, then you might want to consider someone else.

 

[DaBruinz]

and you didnt write anything about 2007.

One year doesn't make the guy NOT injury prone, Briz. You should know that.

 

[BRiZ]

[/B][/I]

First off, there was no way for the Pats to draft Cromartie as he was taken in the 1st round at the 19th pick by San Diego. Secondly, the Pats wouldn't have been able to draft MARONEY if they'd taken Cromartie. And, I'm sorry, but Cromartie isn't near the player that Maroney is.

That doesnt change the fact that Cromartie was the guy i said to take, and everyone else didnt want him. We could have traded up some he was in our range. Cromartie is twice the player Maroney is i would swap them right now without question and even throw in Washington for free to the Chargers.
[/I]

Taylor isn't available. No matter what you think.

We'll see.

[/B][/I]

Again, you don't have your facts straight. Washington would cost less than 2 million.

No he will cost around 6 million in 08 (4 mill bonus plus 1.7 mill cap), a little over 2 mill in 09, and closer to 3 mill in 010.

[/I]

You're a fool if you think that Parcells is going to trade Taylor at all. That's the point.

So you can read Parcell's mind? Really? Who is he taking at #1?

[/I]

We already determined that you don't have your facts straight regarding Gooden. He's injury prone. OH, and Gooden played MLB, not ILB. There is a difference and you should know that since I KNOW you've been schooled on the difference several times.

I know Gooden played MLB but he is 6-2 238 about the same size as Patrick Willis coming out and he could play inside in the 3-4. Gooden is not injury prone for the last time.

Stallworth may get cut, but he may not, it all depnds on how the option is played out. Washington is probably going to have a different contract. But its amazing how you ignore the gunner situation. Gunners are extremely important on punt coverages.

Stallworth will get cut unless he restructres. He didnt not produce enough to warrent that money. Washington will be released before his option is due imo. There is no room for him on offense and hes too expensive for a "gunner".
Now, why would you want the next Wes Welker when Welker is under contract for another 5 years? That makes no sense at all.

Hes not replacing Welker. He is -another- Welker if we had two we could do twice as much. Welker has been getting double-teamed out the rear-end late in the season, put both Welker and Jackson on the field and we got two quick speedy underneath options. We have seen how leathal Welker is in this offense with the quick passing game, WR screens, you increase your strength if you see something work. Jackson is a carbon copy of Welker except he has elite speed too so he can line up out wide not only in the slot. I think he would be very versitile in this offense, not to mention his return ability.

 

[BRiZ]

Yeah, Belichick loves ILB's that have trouble shedding blocks and disrupting plays in the backfield.

I am hoping that they can draft Goff.

he loves slow linebackers than cant run with a TE either. He loves those mismatches. <rolls eyes>

Gooden is more of a poor-mans Patrick Willis, he is not like a Vilma.

 

[DaBruinz]

use your head if you have one DB. Washington is a wide reciever, i dont think he wants to play the rest of his career on special teams. And no special teams player is worth 2-4 mill, kickers are not the same. A kicker is a very important part of a team and are harder to find/replace than any old special teams player. Special teams players are pretty much backups. Washington is not going to crack our WR core, no way unless Gaffney is unable to be resigned. He would still be too expensive for his role, he was signed to a contract assuming he was gunna be a significant contributer on this offense, that was before we signed Moss. Moss aint going anywhere, and Washington is not gunna be able to crack into the unit. He will be released before his option is due.

Briz -
I do use my head, Briz. That is the problem here. YOU don't. Moss is not signed and until he's signed on the dotted line, he's not a Patriot. For that matter, Gaffney is not signed either.

Gaffney may be a wide-receiver, but how many years have the Patriots carried Larry Izzo? Izzo is an ACE special teamer and that is his ONLY spot unless there aren't any more ILBs available because their all injured. And even then, Belichick went and grabbed Chad Brown and the other guy (who I was wrong on) to play there because Izzo isn't a starter. What would be the difference other than the pay? And the PAY can be changed.

Also, I truly think that you don't understand the value of the gunner position. Really and truly, I don't believe you do. Washington made numerous plays the 2nd half of the season and in the post-season that helped ensure the Patriots didn't lose a game. Washington also made a couple plays in the SB to keep Mixon from breaking one again.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hes not replacing Welker. He is -another- Welker if we had two we could do twice as much. Welker has been getting double-teamed out the rear-end late in the season, put both Welker and Jackson on the field and we got two quick speedy underneath options. We have seen how leathal Welker is in this offense with the quick passing game, WR screens, you increase your strength if you see something work. Jackson is a carbon copy of Welker except he has elite speed too so he can line up out wide not only in the slot. I think he would be very versitile in this offense, not to mention his return ability.

Briz- It doesn't work like that. And I really can't believe you think it does. You seem to have forgotten about Ben Watson. If you listen to what you say, Watson should have had MORE catches than he did. And, before you talk about Watson's hands, Watson only dropped 4 passes. Watson was another UNDERNEATH option that the Pats didn't go to very often.

The problem with your thinking is that there really isn't enough AREA for 2 underneath receivers. Because you end up bunching up the defenders and making their jobs easier.

Briz, I have no qualms taking Jackson late. The problem is that he won't be there. Especially if he has the hands and ability you say he does. Someone will see the next Devin Hester and grab this kid in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[BRiZ]

Briz -
I do use my head, Briz. That is the problem here. YOU don't. Moss is not signed and until he's signed on the dotted line, he's not a Patriot. For that matter, Gaffney is not signed either.

Gaffney may be a wide-receiver, but how many years have the Patriots carried Larry Izzo? Izzo is an ACE special teamer and that is his ONLY spot unless there aren't any more ILBs available because their all injured. And even then, Belichick went and grabbed Chad Brown and the other guy (who I was wrong on) to play there because Izzo isn't a starter. What would be the difference other than the pay? And the PAY can be changed.

Also, I truly think that you don't understand the value of the gunner position. Really and truly, I don't believe you do. Washington made numerous plays the 2nd half of the season and in the post-season that helped ensure the Patriots didn't lose a game. Washington also made a couple plays in the SB to keep Mixon from breaking one again.

Moss will be signed. Gauranteed.

Gaffney maybe not, im sure the pats would like to keep him but i could see a few teams looking to sign him and that may push his price over what the pats want to pay.

But enough of that, Izzo barely costs 500k and Washington is due a 4 million bonus, plus will have a 2-4 mill cap for the next multiple years. That is not acceptable for a special teams player. Unless he were to restructure for beans or something more comparable to a #4-5 WR and special teams contributer the pats wont keep him.

I dont disagree that gunners are important, and special teams are important. Washington played excellent on special teams no doubt. I believe around 50 out of the 53 players on the squad could play well on special teams too, theres nothing special about Washington. He was just put in that position, knew his role, and knew he wasnt seeing an ounce of daylight on offense, so he went balls out on special teams. Its not very hard to play on special teams.

 

[DaBruinz]

Moss will be signed. Gauranteed.

No, its not. And you'd best remember that. I remember people saying that Javon Walker was a done deal. And Derrick Mason. And Deion Branch. None of them are in Pats uniforms.

Gaffney maybe not, im sure the pats would like to keep him but i could see a few teams looking to sign him and that may push his price over what the pats want to pay.

More than likely, it WILL push it over. Again, there is no guarantee one way or the other.

But enough of that, Izzo barely costs 500k and Washington is due a 4 million bonus, plus will have a 2-4 mill cap for the next multiple years. That is not acceptable for a special teams player. Unless he were to restructure for beans or something more comparable to a #4-5 WR and special teams contributer the pats wont keep him.

I dont disagree that gunners are important, and special teams are important. Washington played excellent on special teams no doubt. I believe around 50 out of the 53 players on the squad could play well on special teams too, theres nothing special about Washington. He was just put in that position, knew his role, and knew he wasnt seeing an ounce of daylight on offense, so he went balls out on special teams. Its not hard very hard to play on special teams.

Briz-
The fact that you say its not very hard to play on special teams shows you don't understand special teams play much at all. And I'd put money that guys like Matt Light and Nick Kaczur wouldn't play well on special teams. I'd bet that Wilfork wouldn't be good on special teams either. Add Tom Brady and Matt Cassel and there is 5. And that is just to start.

Washington is a fantastic gunner. That is something that teams look for. Just as is Willie Andrews. Why? Because they understand the importance of the position to special teams. They are the 3rd most important position behind the punter and long snapper on punts and they are the 2nd most important behind the wedge breaker on kicks.

Last year, the Pats had only 1 GOOD gunner. Willie Andrews. And it was hidden until Josh Miller went down. After Miller went down, the return average jumped dramatically.

BTW, if the Pats don't pick up Washington's option, he becomes a free agent. its not the same as cutting him. If he's cut, he could start talking to teams immediately. Whereas, he'd have to wait until the start of free agency otherwise.

 

[BRiZ]

Briz- It doesn't work like that. And I really can't believe you think it does. You seem to have forgotten about Ben Watson. If you listen to what you say, Watson should have had MORE catches than he did. And, before you talk about Watson's hands, Watson only dropped 4 passes. Watson was another UNDERNEATH option that the Pats didn't go to very often.

The problem with your thinking is that there really isn't enough AREA for 2 underneath receivers. Because you end up bunching up the defenders and making their jobs easier.

Briz, I have no qualms taking Jackson late. The problem is that he won't be there. Especially if he has the hands and ability you say he does. Someone will see the next Devin Hester and grab this kid in the 2nd or 3rd round.

doesnt really have anything to do with that DB. We just do not throw to the TEs enough. Its been like that for years, even when Graham was here. For whatever reason we only throw the ball the TEs way a handful of times a game. Its really perplexing actually especially considering the weapons we have had at TE.

There would be plenty of room for 2 underneath WRs, especially in a 3rd down 4-5 WR sets. Just put Welker on one side and Jackson on the other, who do you double? What about Moss too? If we had another threat like Welker our offense would be pretty much unstoppable. I dont see Jackson being a pure slot WR either though, yea he main thing would be the underneath stuff, WR screens ect, but he has also played out wide he just doesnt have the hight to probably play there permanently in the NFL. But he could line up everywhere on the O, even give Welker a blow or two. It would be valuable if we could add another Welker in this offense imo. I think he may go in the 4th round highest, i dont think he will be a first day pick. He would probably be worth a 3rd because of how good his skillset fits our offense but if we could get him on day two then you gotta try to to save those 3rds.

 

[JDP111]

Hes not replacing Welker. He is -another- Welker if we had two we could do twice as much. Welker has been getting double-teamed out the rear-end late in the season, put both Welker and Jackson on the field and we got two quick speedy underneath options. We have seen how leathal Welker is in this offense with the quick passing game, WR screens, you increase your strength if you see something work. Jackson is a carbon copy of Welker except he has elite speed too so he can line up out wide not only in the slot. I think he would be very versitile in this offense, not to mention his return ability.

Jackson is a 6'2" BURNER. He is no UNDERNEATH option.

 

[BRiZ]

No, its not. And you'd best remember that. I remember people saying that Javon Walker was a done deal. And Derrick Mason. And Deion Branch. None of them are in Pats uniforms.



More than likely, it WILL push it over. Again, there is no guarantee one way or the other.



Briz-
The fact that you say its not very hard to play on special teams shows you don't understand special teams play much at all. And I'd put money that guys like Matt Light and Nick Kaczur wouldn't play well on special teams. I'd bet that Wilfork wouldn't be good on special teams either. Add Tom Brady and Matt Cassel and there is 5. And that is just to start.

Washington is a fantastic gunner. That is something that teams look for. Just as is Willie Andrews. Why? Because they understand the importance of the position to special teams. They are the 3rd most important position behind the punter and long snapper on punts and they are the 2nd most important behind the wedge breaker on kicks.

Last year, the Pats had only 1 GOOD gunner. Willie Andrews. And it was hidden until Josh Miller went down. After Miller went down, the return average jumped dramatically.

BTW, if the Pats don't pick up Washington's option, he becomes a free agent. its not the same as cutting him. If he's cut, he could start talking to teams immediately. Whereas, he'd have to wait until the start of free agency otherwise.

thats why i said "50" out of "53" players could play on special teams, it was an expression, an approximation. Of course olinemen arent going to be on them except on the FG/Punt lines, and we all know Brady is as fast as a moose and would never play special teams. But most of the starters could easily play special teams, what im saying is there is nothing special about Washington, he wasnt brought here to be a special teams player he was brought here to be a WR, he ended up on special teams and made the most of it. You could replace him with just about anyone. Its not hard to run down the field and down a punt.

Now there are few exceptions, players that are special teams specialists, like Izzo, Mel Mitchel ect who do nothing but special teams and excell at it. Washington is not one of those players. Washington is a WR, a quality #2-#3 WR on half the other teams in the league who dont have the WR core that we do. Washington doesnt want to play special teams for the rest of his career, he has more to offer to a club.

 

[BRiZ]

Jackson is a 6'2" BURNER. He is no UNDERNEATH option.

heh were talking about DEXTER Jackson bro, WR out of Appalachian state entering the draft.

 

[JDP111]

heh were talking about DEXTER Jackson bro, WR out of Appalachian state entering the draft.

Ahhhhhh....my B.

 

[dryheat44]

doesnt really have anything to do with that DB. We just do not throw to the TEs enough. Its been like that for years, even when Graham was here. For whatever reason we only throw the ball the TEs way a handful of times a game. Its really perplexing actually especially considering the weapons we have had at TE.

There would be plenty of room for 2 underneath WRs, especially in a 3rd down 4-5 WR sets. Just put Welker on one side and Jackson on the other, who do you double? What about Moss too? If we had another threat like Welker our offense would be pretty much unstoppable. I dont see Jackson being a pure slot WR either though, yea he main thing would be the underneath stuff, WR screens ect, but he has also played out wide he just doesnt have the hight to probably play there permanently in the NFL. But he could line up everywhere on the O, even give Welker a blow or two. It would be valuable if we could add another Welker in this offense imo. I think he may go in the 4th round highest, i dont think he will be a first day pick. He would probably be worth a 3rd because of how good his skillset fits our offense but if we could get him on day two then you gotta try to to save those 3rds.

Just a quick question, then I'll let you two get back to your argument: Who are we going to stop getting the ball to in order to force Jackson into the lineup? You seem to be arguing that he's going to be making all these plays without taking into consideration that everybody else's balls are going to be diminished. Should we stop throwing to Moss or Welker or Faulk.....or should we just release Maroney and officially not have a running game?

BTW, Cromartie was my guy also back in 2006. Chargers nabbed him first. That's life. It's easy to say, in hindsight, we should have traded up to grab him, but that would have probably cost us either Chad Jackson or Brandon Merriweather in addition to Maroney. I'm OK with the way things turned out, since Jackson's injury really wasn't foreseeable.

 

[BradyToMoss]

You do realize that James Sanders led all Patriot DB's in tackles (73) and 60 of those were solo tackles. The guy is just beginning to get his feet wet in the league and your calling for his head to roll?? Give me a break.

You must be related to James. Are you serious ???? Lead the team in tackles? Are you proud of your starting safety making tackles after 7-12 yard gains? Is that what you want in run support? He had TWO PICKS,
in 16 full time games, that might cut it with you, it doesn't with me. I saw none of these tackles made at, near or even remotely close to the LOS, this concerns me. He's a good, solid backup safety in this league. Sorry to inform you.

James has had MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME, AMPLE TIME, PLENTY OF TIME to show us what he has to offer. He took over for Rodney when he was hurt and he's basically been the fulltime SS/FS for the last 3 years.
Look, he's a 4th round draft pick, who has played at a 3rd / 4th round value. PAR

Don't give me this "Getting his feet wet stuff". He got his feet wet 3 years ago, are you kidding me ? Getting his feet wet?

This might be hard to swallow, but we've already witnessed the best of what James Sanders has to offer. Like I mentioned, is it bad? No. But I need a play maker back there, not a stay at home "Steady Eddie".

 

[DaBruinz]

Jackson is a 6'2" BURNER. He is no UNDERNEATH option.

You have the wrong JACKSON. Briz was referring to Dexter Jackson who happens to be 5'9.

 

[DaBruinz]

You must be related to James. Are you serious ???? Lead the team in tackles? Are you proud of your starting safety making tackles after 7-12 yard gains? Is that what you want in run support? He had TWO PICKS,
in 16 full time games, that might cut it with you, it doesn't with me. I saw none of these tackles made at, near or even remotely close to the LOS, this concerns me. He's a good, solid backup safety in this league. Sorry to inform you.

James has had MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME, AMPLE TIME, PLENTY OF TIME to show us what he has to offer. He took over for Rodney when he was hurt and he's basically been the fulltime SS/FS for the last 3 years.
Look, he's a 4th round draft pick, who has played at a 3rd / 4th round value. PAR

Don't give me this "Getting his feet wet stuff". He got his feet wet 3 years ago, are you kidding me ? Getting his feet wet?

This might be hard to swallow, but we've already witnessed the best of what James Sanders has to offer. Like I mentioned, is it bad? No. But I need a play maker back there, not a stay at home "Steady Eddie".

What you need is a true evaluation of the STRONG Safety position. Something don't seem to have. Sanders has been playing very well back there. So he only had 2 interceptions. He's a friggin STRONG SAFETY. That means he's up in run support more than back. What you seem to NOT understand is that if Sanders has a LOT of tackles, THAT is a problem. When Harrison was leading the Chargers with tons of tackles, their defenses were horrendous.

Sorry, BradytoMoss, but I'll take Rodney Harrison and Bill Belichick saying that Sanders is a starting safety. He may not be an ALL PRO or even a PRO-BOWLER. But his being solid and not giving up HUGE plays is a helluva lot better than what you make him out to be. I think your expectations are what are out of whack. Honestly and truly. And it will lead to more heartbreak for you.