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British Jews: "We're not celebrating Israel's anniversary"

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by weswelker#83, May 8, 2008.

  1. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    British Jews: "We're not celebrating Israel's anniversary"


    http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=146&a=6499
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Britain is loaded with Muslims, they're saying that so they won't get their heads cut off by the guy downstairs----------:rocker:
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting choice of headline on the original article. I suppose they didn't say "All British Jews" or even "Most British Jews..."

    But then again, I personally could go for a little of that "both sides of the story" stuff they tell you about in J school (J for Journalism, wiseasses.)

    This story is a tiny bit flawed, in that it fails to account for the opinion of the other 449,900 Jews in Britain... but it is an interesting side-note, displaying the range of opinion within the Jewish community.
  4. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I didn't think that's what they were insinuating at all by the title. Based on the subject matter, it's also fairly obvious that it wouldn't be "all" or "most." From a syntactical perspective, the sentence "British Jews do X" doesn't imply "all" or "most" it only implies "some." I know you and I disagree over certain aspects of Israel, but I don't think the headline was intentionally or otherwise misleading. It's not attempting to account for the other Jews in Britain, it's a story about this specific group.
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Let's say a hundred liberals give their blessings to Bush on the Iraq war:

    "American Liberals Stand Behind Bush on Iraq War"

    Accurate? Literally, yeah. By implication, no.
  6. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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  7. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Except your taking context out of the equation. 99% of people who read that headline know that most Jews support Israel just a we know most "liberals" are against the Iraq war, so the headline "a group of British Jews...." dosn't really explain anything further than what is already both implied and explicitly stated in the title. It would be misleading if the title read, "British Muslims support Brown's Tax Reductions" because we don't already know where most Muslims stand on that issue.

    And the use of the quote, "we're not Celebrating Israel's Birthday" tells the reader that this is coming from a specific group of people. It's not inferring that all Jews are saying this.
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    1. In other words, "except" makes no sense in your first paragraph. Either

    1a. They are exactly the same case, since we both agree that it is well known American liberals are typically against the Iraq war, in which case you are evidently stating that it is not misleading to say "American Liberals Stand Behind Bush on Iraq." It would be the equiv. of this headline, in that case - which you feel is not misleading.... or

    1b. You are saying that everybody knows American Liberals are against the war, but nobody knows how British Jews feel about Israel.

    I think particularly in non-British circles, 1b is closer to the case; I assume that the majority of US football fans -- THIS audience -- is not British by residence or upbringing. They are much less likely to know the sentiments of the British Jewish community than the American liberal community.

    I must say, I clicked the link wondering whether I was going to have to see some poll of my coreligionists overseas, indicating that they'd pretty much given up on the Jewish state. I was quite simply misled.

    2. The quote doesn't infer anything. The reader infers, the writer of the story implies. Goddammit. At any rate, the quote could be any given man in the street or mensch in the shul interview representing the result of a poll, a mass demonstration, etc.

    Anyway, as I said, it's a quirky little story about a quirky group of anti-Israeli Jews. Nobody ever said they didn't exist. The coverage here, to my eye, is misleading, however.
  9. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    The word "except" at the beginning of the sentence in casual conversation (i.e. this) implies "What you said is true, except...."

    We agree then, I don't think that title is misleading. The only difference would be the addition of a quote in the first one which implies that it's a specific group of British Jews, not all or most British Jews. If the title was; "American Liberals, 'we aren't going to protest Bush's War in Iraq''" I think it would be fairly obvious that they were talking about a specific group of liberals. Not to mention that Jews and Liberals are not equally definable as Jews are an ethnic group and "liberals" is an ambiguous label.

    Everyone knows both that American liberals mostly oppose the war in Iraq and British Jews mostly support the existence of Israel. Any article to with a headline to the contrary would obviously be talking about a fringe group, and would be insane to think readers would believe otherwise.

    That's fair enough, and being British, perhaps I came from a biased angle. That being said, I took your comment to mean that the article is deliberately misleading, and if I was mistaken I apologize, but I don't think many would read that title and think that it is trying to say "most" British Jews oppose Israel.

    Sorry, I meant implies. The story is only newsworthy because the jewish men are "prominent" and deviate from the norm; the very understanding I assumed the public had and why I didn't think the title was misleading.

    Fair enough, but deliberately misleading? I'm not so sure.
    Last edited: May 9, 2008
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Literally accurate? 100 of us? No way... ;)

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