Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind?

[BelichickFan]

I'd go with Belichick too since Samuel cant even spell his own name right.

He can . . . I can't. Hell, I can't even pronounce it right - half the time my wife has to correct me from "SAM-WEL" as I'm used to ex MLB player Juan Samuel.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Well you can certainly write, but I am not sure what your point was though.

I am unwaveringly on both sides of the issue.

Pretty much the same point you made, basically, with the addendum that the Pats aren't going to get any easier to deal with. What some holdouts don't seem to get is that the more of them there are, the more a pattern emerges. If the Pats want to dissuade this behavior (the holdouts,) there are other tools they have not used. For example, they let Deion seek a trade - well, he was "holdout #2," in an apparently unrelated situation to Sey's... so the establishment of the pattern was not as crystal clear as now.

Now we have a situation where you can start looking at each holdout as part of the pattern.

Yes, I agree, the team generates holdouts by not paying these guys bank, unless they are worth bank (Seymour for instance -- and the rest of that D line soon, unless we're idiots and tie our hands financially with a flavor-of-the year cornerback.)

So guys who differ with the Pats on valuation try to get out, and use the holdout as their "nuclear weapon." There seems to be no appreciation that the team can, in fact, go the mutual assured destruction route. Belichick fan says franchise him twice and get what value you can out of him. That's probably the extent of it, the twisting slowly in the wind scenario. It's even possible to sit him even if he does show, but that is the "cutting off your nose to spite you face" type of reaction.

Point is, at some point you aren't spiting your face... you're protecting the team into future years.

Okay, either way, the first, fastest move might be to demand huge value for the guy, along the lines of the Branch model -- but surprise, surprise, INSIST on that value. Two 1s, or from a team that picks high in the draft, a 1 and a 2, maybe. Something sky-high. If some jackass pays it, so much the better. More likely not.

Or refuse to trade his rights at all. Basically tell him, dude, you WILL play under the terms of the tender, unless you want to play for the Toronto Argonauts or someone.

Like BeliFan says, do that 2 years in a row, and watch him trying to explain his 12 combined regular season games, most likely with unspectacular results, over two years.

One other point - a negotiation is a negotiation, sure. Business is business.

All I see is that Samuel expects to be paid as if he is the best in the game, and refuses to acknowledge the Pats' risk that he just had a really good half a year, and a statistically anomolous 07, interception-wise.

He wants to indemnify himself against HIS risk of getting injured.

He wants security, again, indemnifying himself against risk of declining value.

He wants lots of cash up front, loading the risk on the team.

This is all just "smart business," the same way it is "smart business" for me to tell you I would like to sell my house for a million bucks, even though it is appraised at 500K. If you buy it, it's smart business.

If you don't, I have screwed myself, if in fact I really want to divest that asset, because there will never be a contract, and I'll be sitting in that same big ol' empty house, watching other people play football on Sunday. How's that for mixing all the metaphors into a big pot of tailgate chili?

So I guess the only point is, charge out the ass in trade value for Samuel. If nobody ponies up, refuse to trade his butt. Let him hold out, and not "get paid" for 2/3 of the year.

Obliquely,

PFnV

 

[Clonamery]

Well you can certainly write, but I am not sure what your point was though.

Fait accompli....ah, well.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'd go with Belichick too since Samuel cant even spell his own name right.

The original root name for that name, assuming it's biblical, I *** you not, is Shmuel. It's just anglicized to Samuel.

And if you think that makes ancient Israel sound way too much like a deli, consider King Shlomo (Solomon.)

PFnV

 

[SeanBruschi54]

The original root name for that name, assuming it's biblical, I *** you not, is Shmuel. It's just anglicized to Samuel.

And if you think that makes ancient Israel sound way too much like a deli, consider King Shlomo (Solomon.)

PFnV

Please tell me you looked that up and didnt just know that off the top of your head because that would be freaky knowledge if i have ever seen it.

 

[bakes781]

You can't give in to Samuel's demands similar to what Chicago just did. That would set a very bad precedent going forward. As long as there's a solid pash rush upfront the need for an elite CB is not that great. Not that I think Asante is elite, but that's certainly how he sees himself.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Anyone attacking Asante on this is just being a fanboy. Being a fanboy is fine, but don't patronize people by pretending you have an objective opinion. Most people here are like attorneys representing a client: they're going to give their client's side of the story no matter who's right.

Ain't that the truth. Sometimes these fan boards are a tremendous source of amusement to me.

We seem to have no problem at all supporting the patriots when they use every fair rule at their disposal for leverage. Yet when a player does the same, we blast him.

Samuel has satisfied all obligations he has ever had. He is perfectly within his rights to do whatever the rules allow that he thinks is in his best interests, whether we think it's the same choice we might make if we were in his shoes.

 

[cstjohn17]

I am unwaveringly on both sides of the issue.

Most of your premise is built upon the idea that Samuel sits out until week 10. I don't think he will do this.

As far as trying new tactics and raising the ante for a trade, every team in the league had a chance to sign Samuel with a cost of two #1s. They could have approached the Patriots with some sort of compromise. Why would a team suddenly feel the need to make such a deal now?

The Patriots have been inventive, although misguided, the Branch situation is a good example. By allowing Branch to seek a trade it opened a Pandora's box and in many opinions blew up in their face. This year the are going back to their traditional stance of making an offer and then backing away until the situation plays itself out.

Another premise is that Samuel wants $80 million like Clements, we don't know this. All we know is he wants more than the $30M or so the Patriots offered. So now he is acting within his rights to miss some or all of training camp (it is not a holdout since he is not under contract). It is laughable to include a comment about sitting him, whether he plays a down or not is outside the scope of a business conversation. If he signs the tender and joins the team the Patriots have to pay him.

I will repeat myself but IMO neither Samuel or the Patriots are doing anything wrong, it is purely posturing and feet stomping. I believe we will see him show up just in time to start receiving pay checks. In 08 if he is franchised he will have made close to $18M, while publically he may complain about the fairness of the CBA, in his heart of hearts he will feel pretty damn happy.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Samuel has satisfied all obligations he has ever had.

And so have the Patriots...They even offered him a fair deal. Franchising him is well within their rights.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Samuel has satisfied all obligations he has ever had. He is perfectly within his rights to do whatever the rules allow that he thinks is in his best interests, whether we think it's the same choice we might make if we were in his shoes.

I agree..he has to this point...and to his path I may disagree it IS to his best interest..but given that he has no contract at this point..VERY true. And certainly he can sit to the 10th game if he wishes..or even longer. So if the Patriots wished to sit him which THEY have a right to do that would be OK with you??

 

[Pujo]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

And so have the Patriots...They even offered him a fair deal. Franchising him is well within their rights.

Nobody's taking issue with that, only with the fact that both parties are within their rights but somehow Samuel is a moron, doesn't know what's best for him, etc. I want him to be on the field as much as anyone, but I'm not going to pretend I want him to sign for his sake, I want him to sign of my sake (as a fan of the team).

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Nobody's taking issue with that, only with the fact that both parties are within their rights but somehow Samuel is a moron, doesn't know what's best for him, etc.

He's not a moron now . . . if (and I don't think he will) he starts skipping $500K checks per game, then he's a moron.

 

[Real World]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Yeah I feel for him?????

Do I take the 7.8 Million to play a game and then get millions more next year

or

Do I sit for 10 weeks and get paid 5 million.....

Hmmmmm tough choices that guy has. Boy am I glad I dont have those tough choices to make.....NOT.

Look under my name, see the avatar? I made that with you in mind.

Hey, M & M, he's got some difficult business decisions to make. Maybe I should have worded it for 3rd graders. My bad.

Hate to tell you bud, but the choices he makes now decide whether or not his family is taken care of for life. I'd consider those types of decisions with care. $5 million versus $30 million is a gigantic different in todays world.

 

[Real World]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Caps-lock, it's right above Shift.

Nobody's stopping you from giving your opinion, by all means continue to, but it embarasses me to see people being so partisan. We're all Pats fans, but some of us apparantly have no objectivity.

Pujo, we should stick where we belong.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

He's not a moron now . . . if (and I don't think he will) he starts skipping $500K checks per game, then he's a moron.

I do not think he's a moron..and if he thinks he has a point to be made and that point is worth x amount in dollars, then he can sit those games out. I do not think he will, but I think the interesting point will be when he returns. he will NOT be at camp tomorrow. Many think he will stay out 2 weeks..till the public training camp has finished. I could care less about seeing him, but I wonder at what point, what preseason game will it really matter to his season?? If he comes late, Game 4, it'll take a few games at best to get into the mix. NOT the best way to start the season. At what point could he come into camp, make a point by staying out and yet NOT jeopardize having a tainted 07 season? How much is it a gamble for him?

 

[Real World]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Its based upon common sense....

No person in their right mind turns down what he was offered. He is in never, never land if he thinks he is going to get 30 Million up front after 8 great games and 3 and a half seasons of mediocre...:bricks:

He might not get $30, but he might get $20 million. Last I saw the Pats offered him $13 million. Hmmm...let me leave $7 million on the table cuz some poster in PAtsfans thinks I should.

Have you ever negotiated anything?

 

[Real World]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

There are valid opinions besides my own, and there are also a lot of people giving a complete stranger financial advice and expecting that he should take it. Anyone who's suggesting that Samuel take this deal because it's good for Samuel is like a corporation that tries to get away with something by saying it'll "benefit the consumer". It feels like it's only a matter of time until someone screams, "Oh won't someone think of the children!"

Hey, it's "Save the Children!", and that's my line! :enranged:

 

[TheSeymonsta]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Look under my name, see the avatar? I made that with you in mind.
.

Yeah good comeback big boy.

Maybe I should have worded it for 3rd graders. My bad.
.

No need I can understand your drivel either way.

his family is taken care of for life.
.

Hey genius 7.8 million is enough for anyone to take care of their family for a couple generations as long as you dont find it necessary to have 7 Ferrari's and a couple houses built for a king.

Take 7 million put it in a money market account and live off the interest...

I can live pretty comfortably on 700k a year.

 

[Pujo]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Yeah good comeback big boy.


No need I can understand your drivel either way.



Hey genius 7.8 million is enough for anyone to take care of their family for a couple generations as long as you dont find it necessary to have 7 Ferrari's and a couple houses built for a king.

Take 7 million put it in a money market account and live off the interest...

I can live pretty comfortably on 700k a year.

Maybe he wants 7 Ferrari's, and if he can get the, he's well within his right. What he's doing is similar to gambling, he's giving up money now in the hopes of making more of it in the future. Some posters have a crystal ball, but I don't, and I have no idea what he'll get in the future with some other team, and neither does he, but he's willing to take the risk. Financial decisions are a personal matter, nobody knows what's good for someone else. We just know what we want for the team, don't pretend you're looking out for Asante.

 

[Real World]

Re: Briggs close to signing tender. Is Asante far behind ?

Yeah good comeback big boy.


No need I can understand your drivel either way.



Hey genius 7.8 million is enough for anyone to take care of their family for a couple generations as long as you dont find it necessary to have 7 Ferrari's and a couple houses built for a king.

Take 7 million put it in a money market account and live off the interest...

I can live pretty comfortably on 700k a year.

Now you've truly exposed yourself to be a fanboy.