Brian Daboll Goes to the Jest

[spacecrime]

Daboll is an EXCELLENT receivers coach.

Based on what? Not disputing you, just wondering what the rationale is, because I thought our WR group has under-performed for years.

 

[PromisedLand]

How do you think Bill started his tree? By stealing grafts like RAC and Charlie from Parcell's tree. This is what happens within the coaching fraternity. RAC took guys with him too, and others just left with BB on their resume just like BB left for Cleveland based on being a branch of the Parcells tree.

Good theory, except for the facts. When BB started in Cleveland Parcells had retired from the Giants, and when he started in NE Parcells had retired as HC of the NYJ thereby giving BB the job so he could resign as HC of the NYJ. The guy he was "stealing grafts" from wasn't BP, it was Al Groh, who as a new guy had no more claim to them than BB. Finally, who did Romeo steal? Romeo (and Charlie) left on very good terms - both continued to coach for the Pats through SB 39 after each had announced plans to leave.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This hurts fro the standpoint that it's another thing you have to worry about and assilating a new coach in is just more work.

I think we need to bring in some outside coaches for assistants because we just don't have enough guys to promote internally anymore after we've lost so many coaches to other teams.

EDIT: I posted this before I saw the post before mine. Until further notice the discussion is moot.

On what do you base that though. Outside coaches are of little or no use to BB unless they have working in or initially cut their teeth in similar systems. Pees worked with Saban for years. The rest have been with BB almost from birth. Do you think there have been none added over the last few seasons just because we don't yet know their names? You don't imagine guys like Hill and Ferenz and Meyer don't have young graduate assistants they've been recommending to BB just as Saban did with Daboll and McDaniels? It's like the earth suddenly stopped rotating or something...

 

[spacecrime]

Daboll is as good as Scarneccia is with the O-Line. Both turn mostly cast-offs, 7th round picks, and rookies into dominant units.

1. What? Since Daboll has been here, we have drafted three second round picks, Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson, a fifth round pick (PK Sam) and two late picks, David Givens and Sean Morey.

Of the six, only two have been any good to us. Four busts out of a group of six that are not just seventh round picks, but include three second rounders.

We acquired two WRs in trade for fifth round picks, Andre Johnson and Doug Gabriel, who Daboll didn't exactly mold into part of a dominant unit.

We gave Donald Hayes a decent salary and a one million signing bonus, definately was not a castoff.

2. The Patriots wide receivers form a dominant unit? Dominant against who? Bishop Stang High School?

If there is one thing the Pats WR unit is NOT and has NOT been, it is a dominant unit.

 

[patsgo]

Daboll is an EXCELLENT receivers coach. Is he moving horizontally without a promotion?

Under Daboll the Pats lead the league in fewest dropped balls for a few years. He is a great, great coach.

I hate to say it (who am I kidding), but Josh McDaniels is screwed next year. Yup, had to throw the obligatory dump on him.

come on man hes a recievers coach, i repeat a recievers coach a dime a dozen i guess we are going to go 2 and 14 because we lost brian daboll , get over it, if belicheck let him walk there is a reason , you remind me of chicke
n little, in fact if the recievers got a little more seperation we probably would be gloating right now instead of worrying about a recievers coach

 

[maverick4]

Based on what? Not disputing you, just wondering what the rationale is, because I thought our WR group has under-performed for years.

I think we have treated our WR like we treat our O-line (at least 2001-2004). We get free agents, cast offs, and low draft picks (aside from Branch and Bethel), and we still get the job done. Also, according to coldhardfootballfacts, for a few years the Patriots had the #1 WR corp in terms of least % of dropped balls, which I have to attribute to Daboll.

Remember, we also burned 2nd and 3rd round picks before on OL Klemm and Randall, who didn't pan out, but we know that Scarneccia is still a great coach.

 

[belichickaholic]

I saw several new faces on the sideline at the pro bowl. Maybe he's hired some new coaches and hasn't announced it yet. Then again, maybe they were just his college buddies copping a free trip to Hawaii in Feb.

Am I the only one upset that there are only 12 coaches on this staff these last few years? Would a few more coaches have been able to prevent 12 men in the huddle? Arrrgh! I'm still upset about that stupid game

 

[carolinatony]

My point here is COACH A hires me and brings into the coaching tree and
than I move to COACH TEAM B.
I don't ask COACH A assistants to come with me.

I must be old fashioned...its called LOYALTY

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Good theory, except for the facts. When BB started in Cleveland Parcells had retired from the Giants, and when he started in NE Parcells had retired as HC of the NYJ thereby giving BB the job so he could resign as HC of the NYJ. The guy he was "stealing grafts" from wasn't BP, it was Al Groh, who as a new guy had no more claim to them than BB. Finally, who did Romeo steal? Romeo (and Charlie) left on very good terms - both continued to coach for the Pats through SB 39 after each had announced plans to leave.

Charlie didn't steal anybody since he was heading to college. Romeo took Jeff Davidson with him, also rumored to be a potential CW replacement, though Jeff just left Cleveland after being passed over for OC there. He then signed on to be the Panthers OC in 2007.

Al Groh was just an extension of his boss, unlike BB who left so he wouldn't become the next Al Groh - inheritor of Tuna's messes.

But at the end of the day BB understands it better than BP did. Guys worth having on your staff must have ambition, and if you can't accommodate it they really have to move on in everyone's best interest.

 

[belichickaholic]

My point here is COACH A hires me and brings into the coaching tree and
than I move to COACH TEAM B.
I don't ask COACH A assistants to come with me.

I must be old fashioned...its called LOYALTY

:yeahthat:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Considering he helped out McDaniels with personnel switches in the game this could be a potential problem. Not to mention it could prove to be a hiccup in the develop (another one, at least) of Chad Jackson because of continuity.

Hey ! Maybe we could cut Chad Jackson and let the Jets waste a 53 on him?
Just a thought.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

All kidding aside, Daboll was a talent but I agree that he likely perceived himself as 'blocked' by Josh McD's ascendance to OC. I wish Daboll well in his career. Hope he got a big raise. These coaches work much longer hours than Hi-tech startup engineers.

That aside, BB has connections to college and pro guys who know guys. He'll import some new talent.

 

[PromisedLand]

Charlie didn't steal anybody since he was heading to college. Romeo took Jeff Davidson with him, also rumored to be a potential CW replacement, though Jeff just left Cleveland after being passed over for OC there. He then signed on to be the Panthers OC in 2007.

Al Groh was just an extension of his boss, unlike BB who left so he wouldn't become the next Al Groh - inheritor of Tuna's messes.

But at the end of the day BB understands it better than BP did. Guys worth having on your staff must have ambition, and if you can't accommodate it they really have to move on in everyone's best interest.

I forgot about Davidson, but I still feel that the Jets situation when BB left was far different than stealing assistants when the same head coach is still in charge. The former Parcells assistants, Romeo and Charlie, were no longer working for BP the coach. They either had to accept a job under Al Groh or under Bill Belichick.

 

[FilPats]

Maybe the Jets hanky panky is continuing.

I suspect that this is another of EM's tricks. Strengthen his team and weaken the biggest obstacle in his division, particularly in a critical and developing area, i.e. receiving corps. Machiavellian. He is in a hurry to win a super bowl. Go Pats:rocker:

 

[captain stone]

Am I the only one upset that there are only 12 coaches on this staff these last few years? Would a few more coaches have been able to prevent 12 men in the huddle? Arrrgh! I'm still upset about that stupid game

No, you're not the only one.

There is no excuse for having the fewest coaches in the league. Again.

Coaches' salaries are not limited by the cap. Spend the $$, BB, and bring in some new blood. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something...like not to attempt a pass on 3rd & 2, when you're trying to chew some clock, so your defense, which, in allowing an almost 7-minute TD drive to open the 2nd half, is collapsing before your very eyes, can take a few deep breaths and compose itself...

I, too, am obviously still upset about that effin game.

Oh, and by the way...Eff the Fat Bastard and any traitor who jumps ship for merely a lateral move.

 

[frankiesfly]

not a big loss and not suprised. Over the last ten seasons players or coaches that left the Pats went to the jets.

 

[richpats]

Who knows, maybe you'll learn something...like not to attempt a pass on 3rd & 2, when you're trying to chew some clock, so your defense, which, in allowing an almost 7-minute TD drive to open the 2nd half, is collapsing before your very eyes, can take a few deep breaths and compose itself...

I, too, am obviously still upset about that effin game.

Try and let it go- this team turned out a lot better than I thought it would, and scored one hell of an upset in San Diego. But really, the thing that 'killed' this team was lack of killer instinct- the Pats had never dominated a really good team in almost 2 years. They've been inconsistent against good competition and have looked mediocre even in victory. And we all know that the Pats don't know how to run an offense with a BIG lead (through ALL of the Belichick years). It was bound to catch up eventually, NE played the exact same type of game in Indy 3 years ago and was a yard from blowing that one too.

 

[frankiesfly]

Try and let it go- this team turned out a lot better than I thought it would, and scored one hell of an upset in San Diego. But really, the thing that 'killed' this team was lack of killer instinct- the Pats had never dominated a really good team in almost 2 years. They've been inconsistent against good competition and have looked mediocre even in victory. And we all know that the Pats don't know how to run an offense with a BIG lead (through ALL of the Belichick years). It was bound to catch up eventually, NE played the exact same type of game in Indy 3 years ago and was a yard from blowing that one too.

I totally agree with you. I always hated the way the Pats played when they had leads. Its almost like they stop trying to score and expect the defense to hold on for us. I always knew it would catch up to them, thats all me and buddys talked about. Its the most frustrating thing to watch. We got lucky when we clinched in Jax, trying to sit, and knew it was a matter of time before we f_cked ourselves.

 

[RayClay]

We've lost a lot of offensive coaching talent. Where are the replacements?

 

[richpats]

I totally agree with you. I always hated the way the Pats played when they had leads. Its almost like they stop trying to score and expect the defense to hold on for us. I always knew it would catch up to them, thats all me and buddys talked about. Its the most frustrating thing to watch. We got lucky when we clinched in Jax, trying to sit, and knew it was a matter of time before we f_cked ourselves.

Did a little research through the Brady/Belichick years - 15 times the Pats have had leads of 10+ points, only to have their opponent either come back to win (3 times) or have an opportunity to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter.

2001-at Denver (10-pt lead, L), at Pittsburgh*(18, W) , St. Louis*(14, W)
2002- vs. Minnesota (21, W)
2003- vs. NYJ(14, W), at Indianapolis(21, W), at NY Jets (11,W), Carolina*(11,W)
2004- at Miami(11,L), Philadelphia*(10,W)
2005- at Atlanta(15,W), vs. New Orleans(17,W)
2006- at NY Jets(24,W), at Jacksonville(10,W), at Indianapolis*(18,L)