Breer's 53, Bunker Hill Day Edition

[Deus Irae]

I don't buy that Crable has had anything but very minor injuries that he could have played through.

The fact that they've stashed him on the IR for two years hopefully means that BB still has big plans for him in the defense. Also could explain BB's passing on a very obvious need in the last two drafts. Crable could surprise a lot of people, after having two years to bulk up and learn the Patriots' defensive schemes to a T.

Cunningham will not be ready this year, Woods is the new Eric Alexander and Ninkovich will probably be cut. Prediction: Burgess and Crable (or maybe Spikes by week 5) are your starting OLBs in the 3-4. Add TBC and Guyton to mix and Belichick may be cooking up some real wacky defensive looks this year, including lot of 1-5-5. (Seems he hasn't placed a lot of value on 3-4 DEs the last two years either).

I don't expect Crable to make the team unless he does so via special teams.

 

[JMarr]

I don't expect Crable to make the team unless he does so via special teams.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I don't buy that Crable is just a injury-prone wuss who is in love with the tub. BB made the choice to keep him out for two seasons when we were hurting for OLB depth.

This year we might see a really hungry player who also happens to have a lot of innate ability to rush the passer. I doubt BB drafted Crable to be a pass rush specialist only. Mike Woichick didn't get his rep for nothing.

 

[spacecrime]

Again, not having one of the original six is an issue far and away dwarfed by having Welker for six weeks.

Even if Welker is on the roster for opening day (which the Pats could do because of the advantage of having him practicce in training camp), it does not mean he will play 20 games, from opening day to the superbowl.

You severely underestimating the recovery of an MCL/ACl to think he can start at slot WR and play his game, every game, all year long.

Missing the first six games is a small price to pay compared to missing the playoffs because the knee is sore. Good knees wear done during the course of the season. COnsider a partially healed ACL.

We'll see opening week. It is simply what I think vs what you think. COntrary to your ego, it isn't my ignoring you and BB.

Remember. Patrick Pass got cut and no one, NO ONE, signed him. You were wrong about what BB thought then. Consider that maybe, jsut maybe, you are clueless about what BB is going to do this time. Consider that BB himself doesn't know yet.

Then have about 50 pounds of ego surgically removed from your cranium. Your neck won't be so bent out of shape as often.

 

[Patspsycho]

You severely underestimating the recovery of an MCL/ACl to think he can start at slot WR and play his game, every game, all year long.

The truth may be that we imagined the injury to be far worse than it actually was. Did the Pats confirm that it was an ACL injury, a complete tear or a partial tear? The fact is they never confirmed anything.

As hard as it is to understand, the rest of us really can only make educated guess, and mine is that he will see action in game 1.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

He couldn't have shown anything because he was on IR. Going on IR means you are injured not that you are no good.
The bar set by Woods is quite low. We can all argue whether a guy who gets injured is a poor draft pick, but Crable was drafted in the 3rd round, which indicates those doing the drafting felt he had skills. If he does have the skills of a 3rd round pick and stays healthy he will be a better player than Woods. That may or may not happen, but whehter he has shown it yet is not relevant.

The Crab went on IR two years in a row and has not only never played a down in regular season but has missed considerable pre-season action as well. It's quite unlikely he was simply 'stashed' on IR given the lack of stellar contributors at OLB and pass rusher. This indicates that the 3rd rounder has "issues" with durability. Most 3rd rounders never start in the NFL and many never make it. Therefore I continue to find it interesting that many here project The Crab to make the 53 at Woods' (a fine ST player, though a stump at OLB) expense.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I predict that Tory Holt and Fred Taylor wil be cut at the last cutdown; then resigned in week two when a couple of youngsters are cut and go to the Practice Squad.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I predict that Tory Holt and Fred Taylor wil be cut at the last cutdown; then resigned in week two when a couple of youngsters are cut and go to the Practice Squad.

I'd say OR, but based on past strategic moves, those are decent possibilities. In recent years, BB only got burned when he cut young prospects who were quickly scooped up by other teams.

 

[mgteich]

What is point of your strategy? The kids are just a likely to be picked up by anothers team after Game 1 as before it.

I predict that Tory Holt and Fred Taylor wil be cut at the last cutdown; then resigned in week two when a couple of youngsters are cut and go to the Practice Squad.

 

[captain stone]

He's running around, punting footballs, and generally participating in practice. In June. Why you would want to keep a Pro Bowl player out until late October is beyond me.

It looks like it's not beyond, Reiss, though.
Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Gerard Warren, by all accounts, has been starting in minicamp.

Bah. If that lazy old blob is starting vs. Cinci, then we're in trouble.

I agree with you on Ingram. Every year there's someone out there who calls the LS, even if the Patriots have a very good one, a wasted roster spot, because "there's someone else on the team who can long snap." Well, it never happens. There are currently only one or two teams that do not have a full-time long snapper.

Yeah, I think Breer might want to have that one back.

 

[Ring 6]

Slater in for a roster fight - Extra Points - Boston.com

Usually in order to be a lock for a position on this team, you have to have an actual locked down position (not to be a starter, mind you) on top of being versatile. Slater can be versatile all he wants, but he's probably not going to win the returner's job anytime soon. On top of that, he doesn't have a natural position on offense or defense, as this article does a good job of highlighting.

I'm not saying that it's a lock that Slater is going to get cut. But Slater is the most vulnerable of all the special teamers we have. Arrington and Aiken, IMO, are the only two "locks" to make the team because of what they bring to special teams.

I didnt say Slater was a lock. I said Arrington is the one s/ter IMO that stands out as special. The rest are IMO interchangable.
Slater could have a leg up, because if you are picking a special teamer for the 53rd spot, having one that can play both offense and defense is an advantage. We are talking about a special teamer who will only play in an emegency, and if you can play both sides of the ball in an emergency you have a SLIGHT advantage.

 

[Ring 6]

Please compare how many reps each of Aiken, Woods, and Slater have taken in the regular offenses in the past three years. I think that you will find that it is Slater that has the FEWEST reps in the regular offense and defense.

I am not saying that Slater will not beat out Aiken; I just find it unlikely. Aiken is our Special Teams captain and leader. Woods provides solid JAG performance at OLB, much more than most special team specialists.

With normal injuries between now and Game One, I would not be surprised at to see all of our four top special teamers make the 53-man squad. I have three on my roster now.

I would also note that Alexander and Murrell are also top special teamers and will be in the mix in consideration when the final cuts are being made.

Finally, McGowan or Chung both make the team because they contribute on special teams.

There is absolutely no question that Aiken and Woods have had larger roles on O and D than Slater. I wasn't claiming differently.
What I was saying is that among s/ters Arrington, IMO, is the best we have. The rest are somewhat interchangable. Aiken is going to have to make the team on s/ts this year, he is buried at WR depth chart. Woods may or may not make it as an OLB aside from s/ts.
If we are choosing a roster spot for a special teamer who rarely if ever plays o or d except in an emergency, Slater has an advantage becaue he is an emergeny guy in more spots.
If you are choosing a player solely on s/t skills, I don't think there is a marked difference between the candidates outside of Arrington, and yes, I agree that we will use players who do play often on o or d as sters too.

 

[captain stone]

I would rather see Darryl Richard make the 53 than Deaderick. Don't get the fascination with him and the constant brushing aside of Richard.

Deaderick is taller, has longer arms, has more 3-4 experience, and is an overall better talent than Richard. If he could drop a dozen pounds to help his explosiveness, then Deaderick would be a lock for backup 3-4 DE.

Instead of drafting the UDFA-talent Richard, Bill would've been wiser to use that pick on Hampton DT/NT Chris Baker, now with the Donkeys. The self-perceived need to take Brace ahead of Connor Barwin earlier in the draft would therefore have been eliminated, had Bill excercized better foresight & patience, and less panic & misjudgement.

 

[Calciumee]

Deaderick is taller, has longer arms, has more 3-4 experience, and is an overall better talent than Richard. If he could drop a dozen pounds to help his explosiveness, then Deaderick would be a lock for backup 3-4 DE.

Instead of drafting the UDFA-talent Richard, Bill would've been wiser to use that pick on Hampton DT/NT Chris Baker, now with the Donkeys. The self-perceived need to take Brace ahead of Connor Barwin earlier in the draft would therefore have been eliminated, had Bill excercized better foresight & patience, and less panic & misjudgement.

Who? Never heard of him, nothing about him on here ever

 

[captain stone]

Minor point here, but David Thomas, at least, was activated before the 2007 season began, and the Patriots did hold a spot on the 53 even though he wasn't ready to go week 1. For the life of me, given how stacked the roster already was, I just don't see why they were so keen on getting him back so quickly.

And we should all remember how that ended: horribly. Thomas broke the same foot in the same place, and was finished for the season. Do we really want WW to suffer the same fate, and poss. fall victim to more short-sightedness?

 

[Deus Irae]

And we should all remember how that ended: horribly. Thomas broke the same foot in the same place, and was finished for the season. Do we really want WW to suffer the same fate, and poss. fall victim to more short-sightedness?

I was having a discussion on the topic with an orthopedist just yesterday. The crux of the issue is that you've got competing motivations for every party involved.

The team wants the player back immediately, to help team get wins and gain maximum return on the investment. On the other hand, a re-injury or related injury can set back the player, cost more wins and lessen the investment return even more. Back when the money amounts weren't that large, teams could afford to rush players back. Today, multi-million dollar salaries make that less palatable.

The player hates being away from the game, misses his teammates, and worries about his next contract. This makes him want to return right away. On the other hand, coming back too soon can lead to re-injury, related injury, or incomplete healing, and all of those can be devastating, so he has reason to take it slowly. Nobody wants to be miss time because of a hangnail, but nobody wants to pop one knee because they are favoring the other, either.

The doctor wants fast return times because it's good for bringing in more business. Being known as a guy who can get a player back on the field faster than anyone else will be great for the bottom line. On the other hand, a doctor who's work/rehab combo ends up with re-injury. or players who can't get back to 100%, is going to struggle keeping clients.

In the end, all 3 parties weigh the risk/reward ratio and form a plan of action together. Sometimes it works and you get a Braylon Edwards situation. Sometimes it doesn't work, and you get a Thomas Davis situation, where your repaired ACL pops during non-contact drills.

So here's to a safe, 100% recovery that takes as long as is needed to minimize the dangers!

 

[captain stone]

My opinions:

Thomas Williams over BJGE, playing some fullback in addition to being the 5th ILB and a core STer.
Williams must prove that he is a reliable blocker, because he is a bad fit on defense, and there are a few STers ahead of him already.

Welker on PUP to start, opening a spot for Aiken. Price will be stashed on IR (with a hangnail, of course) once Welker is available.
Agree with WW poss. going on PUP, but disagree strongly with placing Price on IR upon WW's return.

Sorry Breer, that was idiotic. Ingram is in, leaving Ohrnberger, Welch, and Larsen one spot to fight over. I'll pick Larsen, but I have no idea why.
Because Larsen's a better player & a more experienced Center.

Deaderick over Lewis. Lewis, Wright, and Pryor all seem like the 3rd down, 4-2 Nickel DTs that we often see. Wright has great production, and Pryor has youth. That gives Lewis' spot to a true 3-4 DE.
Agreed.

Crable over Woods. Woods has shown that he doesn't have a future on defense. I'll give his spot to a guy who might.
Completely agree.

Thomas Williams as the 5th ILB, as mentioned above.
Possibly, for the reason mentioned above.

I agree with Breer that Arrington will make the roster. Shame on all of you leaving him out!
If he can show that he can also play a decent CB/FS, then he's a lock.

I think McGowan could be on the way out, but I don't know who would take his place on defense as the 4th safety. Lockett would need to prove a much better option on STs, or I think this could be where the Pats pick up a castoff from another team.

Rip apart my roster now, please

I can see McGowan being replaced by Lockett or Arrington or a castoff; he was, after all, spotted laughing it up after the loss in Miami. I'll shed no tears for him should that happen, as long as a suitable replacement is found.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I can see McGowan being replaced by Lockett or Arrington or a castoff; he was, after all, spotted laughing it up after the loss in Miami. I'll shed no tears for him should that happen, as long as a suitable replacement is found.

Read that previously. If it is accurate, it really frustrates me that a guy who started the season as a big hit stick went limp mode so quickly. I guess the saying "Attitude is everything" speaks to some fundamental truth.